DBWI: Carter Beats Ford in 1976

[CountDVB]

Well, we wouldn't have that scene in "Back to the Future" when Doc Brown is shocked to hear that a 6'5'' Mormon is President in 1985. There's a story that when the movie was screened at the White House, President Udall laughed so hard at that line he nearly fell out of his chair. It was cool to have a President with such a great sense of humor. He even hosted SNL back in 1987, despite all the jokes the writers had made at his expense for seven years.

President Udall was one of the best we had. Granted the Mormon joke was a little tasteless given how Udall left the faith and the past associations of it got him accused of racism due to Mormonism's touchy relations with race.

Interestingly enough, we could contrast it with the more excess-driven culture of Great Britain and Margaret Thatcher took power and in alot of ways, I feel Reagan's rule would've been similar to Thatcher's, especially with the people they had around him. Thacher's dealings with Iran were... a crapshoot while Carter managed to do diplomatic miracles with Iran, which basically would doom the popularity of the theocratic organizations and led to a secular Iran in 1985.

 

[Amadeus]

Interestingly enough, we could contrast it with the more excess-driven culture of Great Britain and Margaret Thatcher took power and in alot of ways, I feel Reagan's rule would've been similar to Thatcher's, especially with the people they had around him. Thacher's dealings with Iran were... a crapshoot while Carter managed to do diplomatic miracles with Iran, which basically would doom the popularity of the theocratic organizations and led to a secular Iran in 1985.

I would give more credit to Udall than Carter for the Iran policy. Udall and Thatcher managed to work well together despite their differences, so I imagine the same would be with Reagan. Yet little is known about Reagan's foreign policy views aside from his staunch anti-communism - this of course brought him into conflict with Ford in 1976.

 

[JSilvy]

Carter would go on to be a major critic of Israel. Do you think if he were President he would so something when Israel pretty much destroyed Egypt's and Syria's entire armed forces in the 1979 Arab-Israeli War? Of course I'm probably only concerned about that specifically because I'm currently on vacation in Yotvat.

 

[CountDVB]

I would give more credit to Udall than Carter for the Iran policy. Udall and Thatcher managed to work well together despite their differences, so I imagine the same would be with Reagan. Yet little is known about Reagan's foreign policy views aside from his staunch anti-communism - this of course brought him into conflict with Ford in 1976.

Given the prominent neo-conservative figures at the time, we can assume they'd play a heavy role for Reagan and from reading some of their viewpoints, they sound pretty imperialistic and despite the comments on "fiscal conservatism", they seem to eager to dump alot of money into the military.

I could see Reagan getting along with Thatcher, but whether that'd be good is a different thing.

Granted, Carter did not have to be President. He did pretty good with Israel as Secretary of State. Carter did help lay the groundwork for an Israel-Palestine plan under the Udall Administration though it really did not come into play until the collapse of the Saud regime once the US stopped backing them in 1996 under President McGovern. Guess after the whole debacle with Nixon, voters were alot friendlier with him since he manage to barely win senator in 1980 and then just became more popular from there.

 

[glenn67]

Mike Huckabee winning governor I think was the first time a Libertarian won a senator seat. Clinton was a very talented and popular person, but he did not leave much influence after the "New Democrat" movement basically lost the fight for the soul of the Democrat Party against the more FDR-like types, much like how the neo-conservatives lost against the Rockefeller Republicans for control of the GOP.

Nixon was eventually pardoned after serving a bit of time.

Clinton wanted to run for the Senate when Dale Bumpers was elected Vice President in 1980 (Bumpers was also re-elected that same year thanks to the Arkansas legislature passing the "LBJ Law" that allowed him to run for both offices at the same time). When Bumpers resigned from the Senate, Clinton appointed former Senator Fulbright who was willing to serve until the 1982 special election. Clinton ran but lost in the Democratic primary to Jim Guy Tucker in an upset. The Republicans were just about extinct in Arkansas so Tucker won easily.

Bumpers never enjoyed being Vice President and wanted a Cabinet appointment in Udall's second term. That is how he became Attorney General.

 

[Amadeus]

Granted, Carter did not have to be President. He did pretty good with Israel as Secretary of State. Carter did help lay the groundwork for an Israel-Palestine plan under the Udall Administration though it really did not come into play until the collapse of the Saud regime once the US stopped backing them in 1996 under President McGovern. Guess after the whole debacle with Nixon, voters were alot friendlier with him since he manage to barely win senator in 1980 and then just became more popular from there.

McGovern getting elected in 1996 was a pretty stunning comeback. But it wasn't enough to make him a good President - despite the booming economy, he lost to Ross Perot in 2000.

OOC: It seems like our list of U.S. Presidents looks like this:

38. Gerald Ford (1974-1981), R-MI
39. Mo Udall (1981-1989), D-AZ
40. Jack Kemp (1989-1997), R-NY
41. George McGovern (1997-2001), D-SD
42. Ross Perot (2001-?), L-TX

 

[CountDVB]

McGovern getting elected in 1996 was a pretty stunning comeback. But it wasn't enough to make him a good President - despite the booming economy, he lost to Ross Perot in 2000.

OOC: It seems like our list of U.S. Presidents looks like this:

38. Gerald Ford (1974-1981), R-MI
39. Mo Udall (1981-1989), D-AZ
40. Jack Kemp (1989-1997), R-NY
41. George McGovern (1997-2001), D-SD
42. Ross Perot (2001-?), L-TX

Yeah he did lose, though I think it was more no one expected Perot and the coalition he formed in the Libertarians to go anywhere and he managed to run a successful third party campaign that blind-sided the Dems and GOPs.

Granted, Perot would then end up unable to hold that coalition together which is why McGovern won the 2004 Election though man, he was really holding on given how he died weeks after he left the White House at the end of his second term.

After McGovern, we got our first female president in the form of the Republican Hillary Rodham (formerly Clinton), who did surprisingly well, given how people were split on the divorce.

Not sure who was more surprising, a female Republican President with Barack Obama as her VP or having Bernie Sanders, a real independent, win the 2016 election.

OOC: Looks like it though we have McGovern as 2005-2009 and Hillary as 2009-2017 and Sanders as 2017-current.

 

[lerk]

OOC: Well, a fair bit could change in a couple of decades and the Libretarians have become a circus by then given the inclusion of neocons and neolibs.

Perot was not a neoliberal. It's like saying Trump is an environmentalist.

 

[CountDVB]

Perot was not a neoliberal. It's like saying Trump is an environmentalist.

OOC: Okay, I'll edit it then

 

[Electric Monk]

I find it inspiring how President Udall fought to give every American the same quality healthcare he received to treat his Parkinson’s—not to mention the Michael J. Fox visit to the White House when he was diagnosed.

Adopting Hawaii’s Employer Mandidate but using Medicaid / Medicare as a united backend single payer solution was a stroke of genius—all that paperwork standardized and taken away from private corporations. With the Department of Health using non-profits and Medicaid / Medicare prices as their cap for paying out private insurers the market was able to transition without the disruption of pure government run—many private insurers successfully became non-profits and the remaining private market was able to adapt to new niches. With an option to use the freshly expanded Medicare / Medicaid part and parcel of the deal the modern plan mix between government and non-profits allows for major innovation as well as in-line with G7 costs. Of course it did give Ross Perot a second healthcare fortune….

 

[Amadeus]

I find it inspiring how President Udall fought to give every American the same quality healthcare he received to treat his Parkinson’s—not to mention the Michael J. Fox visit to the White House when he was diagnosed.

Had Udall never been President, I imagine that less national attention would be placed on victims of Parkinson's. Congress may never pass the 1992 McCain-Kerry Act which allowed for more funding and research into Parkinson's.

 

[Anglocalvinist67]

I think America really missed an opportunity for transformation in 1976. Carter was a Democrat with good Christian values (including his stand for civil rights as Georgia Governor), and he wanted to restrain the growth of government. He was really independent-minded and not beholden to either the big labor or McGovernite left of his party. The late 70s could have been a golden era for America.

 

[CountDVB]

I think America really missed an opportunity for transformation in 1976. Carter was a Democrat with good Christian values (including his stand for civil rights as Georgia Governor), and he wanted to restrain the growth of government. He was really independent-minded and not beholden to either the big labor or McGovernite left of his party. The late 70s could have been a golden era for America.

Seriously? Whoever won in 1976 would’ve gotten screwed given everything that happened and the opposition would’ve won in the 80s.

The Oil Crisis, the hostage crisis, stagflation...

 

[glenn67]

It is worth mentioning that Jack Kemp as President combined Rockefeller-ish progressivism with supply side economics. His biggest accomplishments were the Urban Enterprise Zone Act of 1990, strengthening the Voting Rights Act, and the Schneider-Roth Tax Reform Act of 1989 (which decreased the number of tax brackets to three and lowered the highest bracket to 38 percent).

It is no surprise that Obama became a Republican because of Kemp and was responsible for rebuilding the GOP in Hawaii.

 

[CountDVB]

I find it inspiring how President Udall fought to give every American the same quality healthcare he received to treat his Parkinson’s—not to mention the Michael J. Fox visit to the White House when he was diagnosed.

Adopting Hawaii’s Employer Mandidate but using Medicaid / Medicare as a united backend single payer solution was a stroke of genius—all that paperwork standardized and taken away from private corporations. With the Department of Health using non-profits and Medicaid / Medicare prices as their cap for paying out private insurers the market was able to transition without the disruption of pure government run—many private insurers successfully became non-profits and the remaining private market was able to adapt to new niches. With an option to use the freshly expanded Medicare / Medicaid part and parcel of the deal the modern plan mix between government and non-profits allows for major innovation as well as in-line with G7 costs. Of course it did give Ross Perot a second healthcare fortune….

Also how he made sure that pharmaceutical companies cannot screw over their clients and patients.

Only thing worse for them was that email leak back in 2005 that revealed a lot of the finances and where they were going. “Big pharma cartels” is still sometimes used today

 

[CountDVB]

It is worth mentioning that Jack Kemp as President combined Rockefeller-ish progressivism with supply side economics. His biggest accomplishments were the Urban Enterprise Zone Act of 1990, strengthening the Voting Rights Act, and the Schneider-Roth Tax Reform Act of 1989 (which decreased the number of tax brackets to three and lowered the highest bracket to 38 percent).

It is no surprise that Obama became a Republican because of Kemp and was responsible for rebuilding the GOP in Hawaii.

Supply side economics wasn’t exactly a good thing given how it caused a backlog for Americare because of budget issues and had Kemp be accused of being a neocon.

It’s why the marginal tax was raised back to 70% by McGovern during his tax reforms.

 

[Amadeus]

It is no surprise that Obama became a Republican because of Kemp and was responsible for rebuilding the GOP in Hawaii.

There's talk of Obama making a Presidential comeback after his election as Governor of Hawaii last year. Given Sanders' unpopularity just about any Republican, including Obama, could beat him in 2020.

 

[CountDVB]

There's talk of Obama making a Presidential comeback after his election as Governor of Hawaii last year. Given Sanders' unpopularity just about any Republican, including Obama, could beat him in 2020.

Unpopularity? Regarding what? President Sanders has been doing pretty well regarding wage increases and increasing focus into green power.

Hmm... I am wondering also how a different 80s would change things. I mean, Tony Blair seemed be ready to take power in the Labour party back in the UK until he got wiped out in the polls once comparisons came to that of the New Dems.

 

[Amadeus]

Unpopularity? Regarding what? President Sanders has been doing pretty well regarding wage increases and increasing focus into green power.

Aside from the Chief of Staff scandal*, most of Sanders' proposals have fallen flat in Congress and he's largely been unsuccessful in foreign policy. While there's been progress on wages, the environment, etc, most of that has been due to natural economic strength than anything the President has done. Current polling from Gallup shows Sanders at 44% approval, 46% disapproval, and the rest are undecided.

*For those who don't follow the news, Sanders' Chief of Staff resigned over allegations of sexual harassment. Similar allegations were made against a few lower level staffers, though they didn't generate as much media attention.

 

[Amadeus]

Hmm... I am wondering also how a different 80s would change things. I mean, Tony Blair seemed be ready to take power in the Labour party back in the UK until he got wiped out in the polls once comparisons came to that of the New Dems.

It wasn't really the comparison to the New Dems that tanked Blair - it was Kinnock's backing of Brown that doomed him. At any rate, running against a popular Chancellor of the Exchequer was always going to be an uphill climb for Blair. I imagine that he would've been a one termer like Brown anyway - and IMO it's better to be a great Member of Parliament than a mediocre PM.