DBWI: AHC make Churchill prime minister

[Fabilius]

Ok, I was reading world war I history and I came across the Gallipolli disaster. For those who don´t know it was a British attempt to invade Turkey, suffice to say it ended horribly.

It was the first of many huge blunders on part of the RN, and as we all know the war ended about a year later when German troops entered Paris.

So anyway, here´s my challenge; make this rather obscure but interesting character PM later: Winston Churchill. He´s the one who got blame for Gallipolli OTL. But the challenge is a POD after Britain and France lose the war.

 

[abc123]

Ok, I was reading world war I history and I came across the Gallipolli disaster. For those who don´t know it was a British attempt to invade Turkey, suffice to say it ended horribly.

It was the first of many huge blunders on part of the RN, and as we all know the war ended about a year later when German troops entered Paris.

So anyway, here´s my challenge; make this rather obscure but interesting character PM later: Winston Churchill. He´s the one who got blame for Gallipolli OTL. But the challenge is a POD after Britain and France lose the war.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't quite DBWI?

 

[modelcitizen]

Maybe if he was imprisoned for his criminal incompetence and had the opportunity to write some kind of overwrought but compelling memoir about his struggle?

 

[modelcitizen]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't quite DBWI?

ooc: it is DBWI. are you ic in saying it should be DBWI?

 

[Fabilius]

Maybe if he was imprisoned for his criminal incompetence and had the opportunity to write some kind of overwrought but compelling memoir about his struggle?

He was actually later on quite a popular writer though he is mostly forgotten today.

 

[Domoviye]

He was actually later on quite a popular writer though he is mostly forgotten today.

This unfortunately is true. His reputation of frittering away valuable men and resources from the Western Front destroyed the long term potential of anything he laid his hands on. Too many critics recalled his past and ignored his creativity.
If the Entente hadn't gone bankrupt and lost the ability to buy war supplies, he may have been able to paper over his debacle, and later become prime minister.
But the best way is to have his idea actually succeed. This would be hard, but doable with a few changes. It may even win the war, in which case he would have a cakewalk in any election.

 

[Fabilius]

But the best way is to have his idea actually succeed. This would be hard, but doable with a few changes. It may even win the war, in which case he would have a cakewalk in any election.

What were his ideas?

 

[abc123]

ooc: it is DBWI. are you ic in saying it should be DBWI?

It isn't DBWI because for DBWI you need try to speak about OTL events. OTL Germany didn't take Paris and won the War. But Churchill did become PM later.

 

[Fabilius]

It isn't DBWI because for DBWI you need try to speak about OTL events. OTL Germany didn't take Paris and won the War. But Churchill did become PM later.

OOC: why don´t you use ooc when speaking out of character. Also Double blind What if, DBWI means we´re speaking from an ATL, not OTL:

 

[modelcitizen]

OOC: why don´t you use ooc when speaking out of character. Also Double blind What if, DBWI means we´re speaking from an ATL, not OTL:

ooc: if I correctly understand it: in other words, DBWI means that as long as you're arguing about the "WI" from an atl perspective, the WI doesn't necessarily have to be OTL.

 

[Evan]

I've read some of his books, and he was quite vehemently anti-German; almost as much as that late-20's Prime Minister What's-his-name. And Churchill would've been a better speaker, too, if he spoke anything like he wrote. I'd say just smack down the Gallopolli idea before it gets executed, and he could get into power later as the man who just might have won Britain the war.

 

[theReturner]

Ok, I was reading world war I history and I came across the Gallipolli disaster. For those who don´t know it was a British attempt to invade Turkey, suffice to say it ended horribly.

It was the first of many huge blunders on part of the RN, and as we all know the war ended about a year later when German troops entered Paris.

So anyway, here´s my challenge; make this rather obscure but interesting character PM later: Winston Churchill. He´s the one who got blame for Gallipolli OTL. But the challenge is a POD after Britain and France lose the war.

That's easy, just have Gellipolli turn into a voctory and have Churchill be thought of as a War Hero because of it. Then have that lead to the UK winning the war 9or at least doing better than they did in OTL), and you could have Churchill elected Prime Minister in a decade. What party would he have been in?

 

[RamscoopRaider]

That's easy, just have Gellipolli turn into a voctory and have Churchill be thought of as a War Hero because of it. Then have that lead to the UK winning the war 9or at least doing better than they did in OTL), and you could have Churchill elected Prime Minister in a decade. What party would he have been in?

That is almost as unlikely as the Terrestrial Cartliginous Fish That Must Not Be Named succeeding from what I have read

 

[Domoviye]

What were his ideas?

Sorry should have been more clear.
I mean Gallipolli.

 

[RamscoopRaider]

Sorry should have been more clear.
I mean Gallipolli.

Again this is about as likely as The Terrestrial Cartilaginous Fish That Must Not Be Named Succeeding

OOC: Operation Landshark, ATL equivalent of the Sea Mammal That Must Not Be Named, not necessarily a cross channel invasion

 

[Cook]

What party would he have been in?

Silly question, Liberal Party of course. Or are you expecting a rat to re-rat? And that the Conservatives would ever accept him back. He was far too volatile a personality to ever be trusted as Prime Minister so the idea is ASB anyway.

He´s the one who got blame for Gallipolli OTL.

You’ve worded that correctly: ‘He’s the one who got the blame’ because although he was blamed the fault was not his – it was Kitchener’s.

Kitchener was responsible for most of the blunders made by the British in World War One, and Gallipoli is no exception; he was even so extraordinarily incompetent as to name the forces sent to Egypt for Gallipoli ‘the Dardanelles Expeditionary Force’. Not a great deal of subterfuge in that name. His irresponsible handling of the artillery supply for the Western Front was of course much more damaging to the overall war effort. But with the collapse of the Entente and the Asquith government, and Kitchener’s increased power in the post-war Coalition government it became impossible to apportion blame where it was due. With him presiding over the enquiry into the conduct of the war that was little more than a public show trial and witch-hunt he was easily able to direct the blame towards his rivals, the French and the colonial forces. Even now there are many that fiercely object to any criticism of the Field Marshal.

 

[Fabilius]

So if Kitchener gets the blame and the liberal party takes a different route than OTL it`s doable. If anything I think he could make very interesting speeches although I personally doubt he`d be a very effective prime minister.

ooc: if I correctly understand it: in other words, DBWI means that as long as you're arguing about the "WI" from an atl perspective, the WI doesn't necessarily have to be OTL.

OOC: of course the WI doesn`t necessarily have to be anything.　I`ve at least always understood it that way.

 

[Domoviye]

Again this is about as likely as The Terrestrial Cartilaginous Fish That Must Not Be Named Succeeding

OOC: Operation Landshark, ATL equivalent of the Sea Mammal That Must Not Be Named, not necessarily a cross channel invasion

Please note I gave two options.
Personally I agree with you that actually succeeding was unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely.
Having the Entente win the war is the most likeliest scenario. Just have to find some way to get the US provide more loans.

 

[Cook]

So if Kitchener gets the blame and the liberal party takes a different route than OTL it`s doable.

That’s fairly far-fetched to say the least.

For Kitchener to be blamed for anything would require that somehow his power hadn’t grown as the war progressed, the Asquith government collapsed and the Conservatives entered the coalition. For the last six months of the war Kitchener can be considered Prime Minister in all but name, a position he didn’t assume until after he’d presided over the Court of Enquiry in 1917 that destroyed the political careers of all of his critics and potential rivals both in parliament and in the British Army.

Tar Kitchener with any of the blame for the defeat and you would probably wipe out the Field Marshal’s Prime Ministership; that’s twelve years in which the course of British history would be changed, not to mention the constitutional changes and his legasy in the Tories.