DBAHC: Have America stay Capitalist

[Ellis MacVey]

OOC: Link to the Wikipedia article on Distributism

So, as most of us know, the United States of America used to be a capitalist country before slowly converting to a Distributist economy in the late '30s-early '50s, with some more ambitious Distributist reforms delayed by the USA's intervention in the Second Weltkrieg in 1942.

Anyways, your challenge here is to make it so that America stays capitalist without completely collapsing due to the Great Depression. Those Scandinavian countries somehow managed to do it (while still maintaining a surprisingly high standard of living, I'm pretty sure), so, unlikely as it is, it's not as impossible as it might sound to the average American.

So... how do you think it could happen?

 

[overoceans]

OOC: Link to the Wikipedia article on Distributism

So, as most of us know, the United States of America used to be a capitalist country before slowly converting to a Distributist economy in the late '30s-early '50s, with some more ambitious Distributist reforms delayed by the USA's intervention in the Second Weltkrieg in 1942.

Anyways, your challenge here is to make it so that America stays capitalist without completely collapsing due to the Great Depression. Those Scandinavian countries somehow managed to do it (while still maintaining a surprisingly high standard of living, I'm pretty sure), so, unlikely as it is, it's not as impossible as it might sound to the average American.

OOC:

If you think Al Smith had a rough ride of it in 1928, what fate do you think awaits a party that openly proclaims Leo XIII as its chief ideologue?

 

[Ellis MacVey]

OOC:

If you think Al Smith had a rough ride of it in 1928, what fate do you think awaits a party that openly proclaims Leo XIII as its chief ideologue?

OOC: That is a pretty good criticism. However, I'd like to give you a friendly reminder that it's 2019 and a large percentage of one of the United States' two major political parties is openly against separation of church and state, although they can't really do anything about it. The 1930s were a much crazier time period, and Distributism, while rooted in Catholic teachings, is not an inherently Catholic ideology (I.E. you don't have to be a Catholic to be a Distributist), so I'd say it's not that implausible. All we need is a few nudges (yes, that is a bit of an exaggeration as to how easy Distributist America would be, it's still fairly implausible, but I'd still say it's not impossible or even ridiculously unlikely)...

 

[overoceans]

OOC: Well, conservative Christians(which in 2019 includes many Catholics) are against SOCAS because they want the country to be run according to their view of Christian values.

And it was pretty much the same in 1928, except that at that time, Christian values meant being anti-Catholic. So, using 2019 as the parallel actually kind of works against the idea of Depression-era America embracing a Catholic-based ideology.

NOW THAT BEING SAID...

I think, yeah, you could quite easily "nativize" the basic idea of Distributism, IOW remove its Catholic background and trappings, but justify the economics according to respectable protestantism or even just a vague "Americanism". And you could even include a section of this movement that does pander to Catholic voters, albeit somewhat on the down-low.

An example of this might be Canadian Social Credit, which occupied more or less the same terrain as Distributism, but started out as sort of "bohemian conservative" in the UK and Europe, mutated into evangelical Christianity in anglo Canada, but also managed to maintain an important, and eventually dominant, Catholic wing in Quebec. Mind you, even then, it is rumoured that the anglo-franco split in 1960s Social Credit resulted from the Quebeckers being told that there should not be a French Catholic leader, because western Canadians would never go for it.

 

[overoceans]

IC:

To keep America capitalist, have the Distributists actually run under that name, with the Catholic origins of the movement openly extolled. That pretty much loses them every state in the union, except maybe Maryland.

As it stands, the American Bible Economics Party made a very wise move by running under that name("Honest ABE", seriously brilliant), while winking at the Distributionist congressional candidates running in Catholic-heavy districts, who in turn advised their followers to vote ABE on the presidential ticket, so as to avoid sectarian vote-splitting.

 

[Ellis MacVey]

OOC: Well, conservative Christians(which in 2019 includes many Catholics) are against SOCAS because they want the country to be run according to their view of Christian values.

And it was pretty much the same in 1928, except that at that time, Christian values meant being anti-Catholic. So, using 2019 as the parallel actually kind of works against the idea of Depression-era America embracing a Catholic-based ideology.

NOW THAT BEING SAID...

I think, yeah, you could quite easily "nativize" the basic idea of Distributism, IOW remove its Catholic background and trappings, but justify the economics according to respectable protestantism or even just a vague "Americanism". And you could even include a section of this movement that does pander to Catholic voters, albeit somewhat on the down-low.

An example of this might be Canadian Social Credit, which occupied more or less the same terrain as Distributism, but started out as sort of "bohemian conservative" in the UK and Europe, mutated into evangelical Christianity in anglo Canada, but also managed to maintain an important, and eventually dominant, Catholic wing in Quebec. Mind you, even then, it is rumoured that the anglo-franco split in 1960s Social Credit resulted from the Quebeckers being told that there should not be a French Catholic leader, because western Canadians would never go for it.

OOC: Yeah, I'd say that could work. Also, a distributist country arising in Europe (perhaps an alternate Italy that stayed neutral in World Wa-*ahem*- The First Weltkrieg) and being successful in combating the Great Depression could help along a secularized and/or Protestantized version of the movement in the United States...

 

[Ellis MacVey]

IC:

To keep America capitalist, have the Distributists actually run under that name, with the Catholic origins of the movement openly extolled. That pretty much loses them every state in the union, except maybe Maryland.

As it stands, the American Bible Economics Party made a very wise move by running under that name("Honest ABE", seriously brilliant), while winking at the Distributionist congressional candidates running in Catholic-heavy districts, who in turn advised their followers to vote ABE on the presidential ticket, so as to avoid sectarian vote-splitting.

IC: Yeah, that'd definitely do them in, although it might potentially prevent the ABE-DPUSA* split in the late 1960s (for those of you who don't know, this split happened when the Democratic Party, the USA's last large capitalistic political party, dropped below 10% in the polls. Although at first it was pretty unclear and mostly based on religious grounds, DPUSA eventually semented its place as the new socially left-wing political party and ABE as the socially conservative party by the mid-1970s, although their economic policies are still pretty similar, with the main difference being ABE prefers an isolationist approach and the DUSA prefers a more globalist approach. Sorry for the long-winded explanation, I just felt it might be necessary for some of the Europeans reading this).

Them not really making it as a party might mean their ideologies might not diverge enough for a split at all, though even if the split did happen, it wouldn't exactly be big news...

*OOC: DPUSA stands for the Distributist Party of the United States of America, also known as Distributist Party USA. Yes, its name is a shameless ripoff of Socialist Party USA.

 

[Ellis MacVey]

So... other than by having the Distributists run as Distributists, how could we keep the Capitalists in charge? I'd say somehow avert the Great Depression, but I'm pretty sure that economic crashes are inevitable in a Capitalist system. Maybe make it a lot less severe somehow?

 

[Whiteshore]

Have Huey Long not read some Distributist manifesto which inspired him to adopt Distributism?

 

[Ellis MacVey]

Have Huey Long not read some Distributist manifesto which inspired him to adopt Distributism?

Huey Long's contributions to the Distributist movement are overstated, although he did do a lot of good for the economy of Louisiana when he served as governor (despite his corruption and early authoritarianism). I'd say have Teddy Roosevelt win a third term and introduce more progressive reforms that soften the blow of the Great Depression a bit. That might work.

 

[Whiteshore]

Huey Long's contributions to the Distributist movement are overstated, although he did do a lot of good for the economy of Louisiana when he served as governor (despite his corruption and early authoritarianism). I'd say have Teddy Roosevelt win a third term and introduce more progressive reforms that soften the blow of the Great Depression a bit. That might work.

Well, he did provide a charismatic voice to the Distributist movement with his "Share Our Wealth" manifesto introducing Distributist ideals to a secular audience who would ordinarily have supported socialist movements.

 

[Whiteshore]

Any thoughts, @bhlee0019? Would we still see the German-American "special relationship" as both countrists are strong democracies with systems which "combine the best of capitalism and socialism" (with the Americans being Distributists and the Germans being social democrats)?

 

[Tales Weaver]

completely collapsing due to the Great Depression. Those Scandinavian countries somehow managed to do it (while still maintaining a surprisingly high standard of living, I'm pretty sure),

You forgot Japan, which maintained extremely high living standards while managing to go full capitalist.

 

[Tales Weaver]

Any thoughts, @bhlee0019? Would we still see the German-American "special relationship" as both countrists are strong democracies with systems which "combine the best of capitalism and socialism" (with the Americans being Distributists and the Germans being social democrats)?

Nope. As this will mean conflict with each other.

 

[Whiteshore]

Nope. As this will mean conflict with each other.

True, though the strong German-American community was a major factor as well in the development of the "special relationship".

 

[Ellis MacVey]

You forgot Japan, which maintained extremely high living standards while managing to go full capitalist.

You're right, I did forget the Japanese, didn't I? What allowed them to survive as a nation with a capitalist economy during the Great Depression, and could America have replicated it?

Honestly Japan is a better example than Norway, Denmark, or Sweden, because it's more dependent on American exports (even today with Qing China in the picture) and thus was hit much harder by the Great Depression...

 

[victor Kuris]

You're right, I did forget the Japanese, didn't I? What allowed them to survive as a nation with a capitalist economy during the Great Depression, and could America have replicated it?

Honestly Japan is a better example than Norway, Denmark, or Sweden, because it's more dependent on American exports (even today with Qing China in the picture) and thus was hit much harder by the Great Depression...

I know that it might sound crazy but follow me for a moment there were plans by some to subvert The state by handing micarther made the commander of a military junta and force out the distibutists what if that plan went thru?

 

[Sam R.]

What if areligious and anti religious labour and socialist movements hegemonised the anti-capitalist movement? Now most of you are objecting to the idea of a resurgent atheist labour movement in the 1930s, but the IWW came out of nowhere pretty much in the naughts and all it would take is one seed industry like western mining to make some kind of Senate of Industrial Organisers or whatever possible.

Imagine if American observant protestants feared social endeavour because it was godless?

 

[Whiteshore]

How much influence do you think did Huey Long have in the rise of American Distributism as the "Share Our Wealth" manifesto he wrote and published introduced Distributism to an audience of secularists and even outright atheists?

 

[Ellis MacVey]

What if areligious and anti religious labour and socialist movements hegemonised the anti-capitalist movement? Now most of you are objecting to the idea of a resurgent atheist labour movement in the 1930s, but the IWW came out of nowhere pretty much in the naughts and all it would take is one seed industry like western mining to make some kind of Senate of Industrial Organisers or whatever possible.

Imagine if American observant protestants feared social endeavour because it was godless?

OOC: Sadly, that sounds like the current state of politics in OTL's United States