Damn straight, that should be another POD.
What if Jeph Loeb never ruined the Ultimate Universe?
Dark Age comics PODs
- Thread starter Night Gaul
- Start date
What if Jeph Loeb never ruined the Ultimate Universe?
A bit late in posting my response to this, but I would take a crack at this. First, I was mistaken when I said that Time Warner demoted Paul Levitz after Jeanette Khan's departure from DC. He served as President of DC Comics until Diane Nelson effectively replaced him. Second, this is a rather broad question as turnover is a constant because editors like Mike Carlin move elsewhere within the company, quit, or retire (case with Denny O'Neil.) Much of the DC's direction over the last two decades is the work of two individuals: Dan DiDio and Geoff Johns, thus you would need to change their career trajectories. DiDio could possibly find work in the animation industry and Johns could stay in the film industry--possibly become to DC what Kevin Feige is to Marvel Studios. There are some things to consider...
Geoff Johns was probably the last "superstar" creator as his work on Flash, JSA, Hawkman, Teen Titans, and Green Lantern revitalized those titles. It was because of his efforts that Green Lantern was one of the company's top-selling titles of the 00s. Without Green Lantern: Rebirth the title likely would have muddled along as an unremarkable Kyle Rayner-centric second tier book with John Stewart serving as the GL in the Justice League title at the time, which was the pre-Rebirth status quo from 2002-04. Wally West would have remained the primary Flash, but it's hard to tell how his title would have done as it would have depended on who wrote the book after Mark Waid's departure. Frankly, Geoff Johns revitalizing classic Flash rogues like Captain Cold while introducing new takes on classic ideas by giving Wally his own "Reverse Flash" in Zoom gave the title a shot in the arm as it had grown stagnant. Similarly, the Green Lantern Corps would have likely would have remained defunct as there was no real drive to bring it back until Johns came along.
Grant Morrison probably would have filled the void Johns left. Perhaps his Superman 2000 proposal (co-written with Waid, Mark Millar, and Tom Peyer) would have seen the light of day and his unrealized "Hypercrisis" proposal would have replaced Infinite Crisis and Seven Soldiers.
That is an excellent idea.
Doesn't it mean more than four Supermen, tho? (Or are we not counting the "power creep" of the serials?)
Here's the biggest POD I can think of: what if Liefield's art style never gain widespread popularity? The huge proportions, scowling faces and guns that don't look like the should function never takes off and instead someone like McFarlane or Bruce Timm set the tone for what characters look like in the 90's?
That's outside the scope of this thread. Quesada became EIC in 2000, while the Dark Age is generally considered to have ended before then.
I know this is over four months late, but...
His first published work with either of them was with DC and breakthrough was with Hawk & Dove.
Rob Liefeld did start off doing work for DC rather than Marvel.
His first published work with either of them was with DC and breakthrough was with Hawk & Dove.
What if Cable had his original backstory?
To clarify: Cable being Nathan Summers was established by Fabian Nicieza in 1993 via retcon. The original backstory that was meant to be revealed later by Rob Liefeld, was that Cable was actually a future version of Cannonball. In fact, there were hints in the early X-Force comics that would've led to this. However, Liefeld left in 1992 to help form Image Comics, and as Cable got away from him, his more well-known characterization took shape.
But, that begs the question: What if Cable really was Cannonball from the future? What changes about him, X-Men and Marvel's lore?
To clarify: Cable being Nathan Summers was established by Fabian Nicieza in 1993 via retcon. The original backstory that was meant to be revealed later by Rob Liefeld, was that Cable was actually a future version of Cannonball. In fact, there were hints in the early X-Force comics that would've led to this. However, Liefeld left in 1992 to help form Image Comics, and as Cable got away from him, his more well-known characterization took shape.
But, that begs the question: What if Cable really was Cannonball from the future? What changes about him, X-Men and Marvel's lore?
What If....
2099 line had been more successful in maintaining quality control
Clone Saga had stuck to its original outline
Crisis/Hypertime led to the establishment of a DC multiverse like Marvels, instead of 1 universe
Image broke up
Marvel and DC stopped doing ‘mega’ events and crossovers and let their lines breathe for a while to produce long runs under the same creators
Peter David wrote Alpha Flight
Aunt May stayed dead
Marvel not brought out by Perlman
Someone else rescues Marvel from bankruptcy in 96
Fantastic Four is a great movie and the movie/MCU paths goes very differently
The ‘grim and gritty’ age ends when Marvel emerges from bankruptcy with a very ‘back to basics’ Sliver age relaunch
TMNT is brought by Marvel taking the brand in a different direction
Gatachaman is made as a animated movie and comic range Revitalising the brand
2099 line had been more successful in maintaining quality control
Clone Saga had stuck to its original outline
Crisis/Hypertime led to the establishment of a DC multiverse like Marvels, instead of 1 universe
Image broke up
Marvel and DC stopped doing ‘mega’ events and crossovers and let their lines breathe for a while to produce long runs under the same creators
Peter David wrote Alpha Flight
Aunt May stayed dead
Marvel not brought out by Perlman
Someone else rescues Marvel from bankruptcy in 96
Fantastic Four is a great movie and the movie/MCU paths goes very differently
The ‘grim and gritty’ age ends when Marvel emerges from bankruptcy with a very ‘back to basics’ Sliver age relaunch
TMNT is brought by Marvel taking the brand in a different direction
Gatachaman is made as a animated movie and comic range Revitalising the brand
What if Chris Claremont was the 8th co-founder of Image Comics alongside Todd McFarlane, Marc Silvestri, Jim Lee, Rob Liefeld, Erik Larsen, Jim Valentino and Whilce Portacio?
Context: Chris was tired of Marvel's constant interfering and mistreatment of him after 16 years of being the leading creator of the X-Men who defined the lore, and left alongside the aforementioned seven with the intention of forming Image Comics. He was planning to co-create a comic with Portacio called Huntsman, a character that actually exists in the WildStorm Universe (but is very minor). Things fell apart when Portacio decided to make a comic called Wetworks for Jim Lee's WildStorm without him. He then split off to do DC, and then other indies (returning to do X-Men on occasion).
Sadly, he's never been able to recapture his former glory in the years since, but I'm always open to reading anything he makes (hint hint: I hope Chris joins the crowdfunding scene because I'd back it in a heartbeat. Even better, I hope he gets to write a book about X-Men that's cut off from the bullshit of today's Marvel... as unrealistic as that sounds).
But what if things went better and Chris stayed with the Image crew, potentially opening his own studio as a partner? How might things change from there (would Chris have a better post-X-Men future)?
It's interesting to note that Chris Claremont is a professional writer, while the seven (plus associates like Sam Kieth, Dan Fraga, J. Scott Campbell, Jae Lee and so on) were professional artists. This contributed to the stories of early Image being rather paper thin (to varying degrees), as their talents were in drawing and not writing stories. Chris Claremont could've changed that pretty well.
Context: Chris was tired of Marvel's constant interfering and mistreatment of him after 16 years of being the leading creator of the X-Men who defined the lore, and left alongside the aforementioned seven with the intention of forming Image Comics. He was planning to co-create a comic with Portacio called Huntsman, a character that actually exists in the WildStorm Universe (but is very minor). Things fell apart when Portacio decided to make a comic called Wetworks for Jim Lee's WildStorm without him. He then split off to do DC, and then other indies (returning to do X-Men on occasion).
Sadly, he's never been able to recapture his former glory in the years since, but I'm always open to reading anything he makes (hint hint: I hope Chris joins the crowdfunding scene because I'd back it in a heartbeat. Even better, I hope he gets to write a book about X-Men that's cut off from the bullshit of today's Marvel... as unrealistic as that sounds).
But what if things went better and Chris stayed with the Image crew, potentially opening his own studio as a partner? How might things change from there (would Chris have a better post-X-Men future)?
It's interesting to note that Chris Claremont is a professional writer, while the seven (plus associates like Sam Kieth, Dan Fraga, J. Scott Campbell, Jae Lee and so on) were professional artists. This contributed to the stories of early Image being rather paper thin (to varying degrees), as their talents were in drawing and not writing stories. Chris Claremont could've changed that pretty well.
What if The Clone Saga only lasted six months as originally planned?
Keep in mind, when The Clone Saga first came out, the idea was that it would be a six month long status quo that would be new and different, and then end with Ben Reilly becoming Spider-Man (but with a backdoor in so Peter could return later if it didn't pan out, which would likely be the case). It got stretched to over two years by a greedy marketing team who saw the financial success and told the writers to keep the Clone Saga going as long as possible. Thus, it became the absolute nightmare we know it as today.
You can actually see this reflected in the story quality itself: Early on, the writing and story wasn't bad at all, pretty good actually with intrigue, interesting new characters like Ben Reilly and Kaine Parker, good arcs (such as Scarlet Spider vs. Venom), and great action scenes for sure. Much of the mess came when it was stretched to unnatural lengths after that by the marketing team. The kinder words people have to say about the Clone Saga is often that there was certainly good parts in it, but taken as a whole it's terrible (I mean, with how much story there was it's only logical that some things would be a hit just by the law of averages).
Much of the good stuff was introduced either at the beginning or the end, and much of the middle was garbage. So in a timeline where the Clone Saga went as intended, what changes both in terms of the storyline, the wider Marvel-Verse, and Marvel Comics as a company?
Keep in mind, when The Clone Saga first came out, the idea was that it would be a six month long status quo that would be new and different, and then end with Ben Reilly becoming Spider-Man (but with a backdoor in so Peter could return later if it didn't pan out, which would likely be the case). It got stretched to over two years by a greedy marketing team who saw the financial success and told the writers to keep the Clone Saga going as long as possible. Thus, it became the absolute nightmare we know it as today.
You can actually see this reflected in the story quality itself: Early on, the writing and story wasn't bad at all, pretty good actually with intrigue, interesting new characters like Ben Reilly and Kaine Parker, good arcs (such as Scarlet Spider vs. Venom), and great action scenes for sure. Much of the mess came when it was stretched to unnatural lengths after that by the marketing team. The kinder words people have to say about the Clone Saga is often that there was certainly good parts in it, but taken as a whole it's terrible (I mean, with how much story there was it's only logical that some things would be a hit just by the law of averages).
Much of the good stuff was introduced either at the beginning or the end, and much of the middle was garbage. So in a timeline where the Clone Saga went as intended, what changes both in terms of the storyline, the wider Marvel-Verse, and Marvel Comics as a company?
What if the Youngblood animated series on Fox Kids was made?
An animated adaptation of Youngblood was greenlit, and demos of it exist. It actually looks like it would've been a huge improvement over the Liefeld comic, with an animation style that's neat, fluid and almost anime like, has a good mix of action and humor, shows off the celebrity superhero aspect that was rarely shown in the original, and the characters all look much cooler. And yes, they have feet. Granted, this is based off the little we see in the animation demo.
The main reason it got canned? Marvel secured an exclusive deal to be the only comic book adaptations to be aired there, which drove everyone else, including Youngblood off and thus the show never materialized. I think this might've saved Youngblood in the long run to have a good animated series based on it. For those curious about it:
An animated adaptation of Youngblood was greenlit, and demos of it exist. It actually looks like it would've been a huge improvement over the Liefeld comic, with an animation style that's neat, fluid and almost anime like, has a good mix of action and humor, shows off the celebrity superhero aspect that was rarely shown in the original, and the characters all look much cooler. And yes, they have feet. Granted, this is based off the little we see in the animation demo.
The main reason it got canned? Marvel secured an exclusive deal to be the only comic book adaptations to be aired there, which drove everyone else, including Youngblood off and thus the show never materialized. I think this might've saved Youngblood in the long run to have a good animated series based on it. For those curious about it: