Could cossacks carve out independant states outside the Russian Empire

[Hvalrossen]

Could cossacks carve out independant states outside the Russian Empire. This is not to be confused with carving out states from the Russian Empire.

These cossaks can be member of cossack hosts supported by the Russian Empire or opposed by the Russian Empire.

How might such a state look like? Would the cossacks simply establish themselfes as a military elite?

What of cossack states in Central Asia(historical parts of RE and SU), Afghanistan, Xinjiang, Mongolia, Manchuria, Lappland, Iran?

What about non independant cossack hosts outside the Russian empire?

 

[Dan1988]

As you've probably noted, towards the end of WW1 (and for a bit on the territory of modern Ukraine) there were attempts by Cossacks to turn their voyskos (hosts) into independent nations. However, for OP purposes, probably the best way to make it work would be the maintenance of independent Ukraine, so either the Treaty of Pereyaslav ends up differently or the Treaty does not exist at all.

 

[alexmilman]

Could cossacks carve out independant states outside the Russian Empire. This is not to be confused with carving out states from the Russian Empire.

Which time frame and which "Cossacks"?

Russian Empire existed between 1721 and 1917 and by that time the window of opportunity was mostly gone.

Term "Cossacks" is so broad that it does not make too much sense. Initially, there were Ukrainian and Don Cossacks. The Ukrainian ones had a subdivision, "Zaporozie cossacks" (permanently existing group of the bandits making their living mostly by fishing and raiding). The Ukrainian Cossacks got their own initially independent state, "Hetmanate", in the mid-XVII (no "Russian Empire" around for quite a while) but it soon was split into lesser entities controlled by the PLC, Tsardom of Moscow and Crimean Khanate (situation was quite fluent for years). The main problem was an absence of the good natural borders. Well, and general disorder within that state(s). However, the Hetmanate (vassal of Moscow/Russian Empire) existed as an ...er.... "independent state" all the way to the reign of Catherine II. Its last Hetman (junior brother of a boyfriend of Empress Elizabeth) had its capital (but preferred to live in St-Petersburg), court, etc. When Catherine decided that she had enough of that silly notion, he protested and was banished from the court. In a very short time he understood all errors of his ways, agreed to all Catherine's demands, was forgiven, patted on the head, allowed to kiss the empresses hand and lived happily ever after. Zaporozhian Sich was abolished in 1775.

The Cossacks of Don had been from the very beginning too dependent upon the supplies from Moscow (firearms, gunpowder, etc.) to try playing the independence. During the Time of Troubles they were, of course, doing their share of looting and there were some rebellions in the XVII and early XVIII but that's it.

The Cossack of Yaik (or Ural Cossacks) had been a driving force of the Pugachev Rebellion but, short of their leader claiming to be Peter III, there was not too much of a "statehood" involved.

The Cossacks of Siberia (there were numerous groups) hardly had a chance or wish because there was too few of them even put together.

The Central Asia did not provide realistic openings: local population was bellicose enough, not enough Cossacks had ever been in that region and it was probably too late for such an idea, anyway.

What about non independant cossack hosts outside the Russian empire?

During the reign of Catherine II quite a few of the Ukrainian/Zaporozie cossacks fled to the Ottoman empire. There was even a comic opera, "Zaporozets beyond the Danube" dedicated to this event. The Ottomans formed Danubian Sich in Bessarabia which existed until 1812.

 

[RGB]

The Cossacks of Siberia (there were numerous groups) hardly had a chance or wish because there was too few of them even put together.

And while there were cossacks in Siberia after Siberia's conquest (so called Siberian Service Army) and service cossacks (gorodovye) had settled there ever since (my people, incidentally), Siberian Cossacks in the sense of the Siberian Line Host only date back to 1808 (which included lots and lots of quite heterogeneous people). There was never very much independence movement until 1917 either.

 

[alexmilman]

And while there were cossacks in Siberia after Siberia's conquest (so called Siberian Service Army) and service cossacks (gorodovye) had settled there ever since (my people, incidentally), Siberian Cossacks in the sense of the Siberian Line Host only date back to 1808 (which included lots and lots of quite heterogeneous people). There was never very much independence movement until 1917 either.

The closest thing that I can come with (not that I know too much about the area) is when small groups of the local Cossacks pretty much on their own moved into Dauria which Qing Chinese considered their territory and built fort of Albazin in 1651. The whole thing ended with a small-scale war and the Treaty of Nerchinsk but the Cossacks had not been trying to establish a state of their own.

 

[The Militant Doberman]

Could cossacks carve out independant states outside the Russian Empire. This is not to be confused with carving out states from the Russian Empire.

These cossaks can be member of cossack hosts supported by the Russian Empire or opposed by the Russian Empire.

How might such a state look like? Would the cossacks simply establish themselfes as a military elite?

There was the attempt to create the “New Moscow” colony in Africa:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagallo
https://www.rferl.org/a/africa-sagallo-russian-colony/26934711.html

The Persian Cossacks were also key in establishing the Pahlavi dynasty in Iran (Reza Shah was a general in the Cossack Brigade). So I guess you could count Imperial Iran from 1920s onward as a “Cossack state” if you squint just right (or you could make it *more* of a Cossack state with a few changes)

 

[Intosh]

Could cossacks carve out independant states outside the Russian Empire. This is not to be confused with carving out states from the Russian Empire.

These cossaks can be member of cossack hosts supported by the Russian Empire or opposed by the Russian Empire.

How might such a state look like? Would the cossacks simply establish themselfes as a military elite?

From an old thread :

I imagine that between 1621 and 165X..., the Dniepr Cossacks with or without the direct armed intervention of the Commonwealth armies managed to invade and conquer the Crimean Khanate, while staying subjects or rather good allies of the PLC. Because during this time, Russia had many problems of its own.

Problems :

The Tatars slavery raids against southern PLC are not stopped so why the PLC will help Cossacks semi-autonomous or autonomous state in a case of the OE sent an army to reestablish a Crimean Khanate.

Next problem :
A cossack semi-autonomous region in Crimea and near the mouths of the Dniepr still represent a magnet for every ruthenian peasants fleeing the oppression of the servage... It also represent a major social headache for the PLC social order.

So next :
What prevent the hate and the hostilities between the Polish magnates in south-eastern Ruthenia and the Cossacks to engage in politicals or even military struggles. The Cossacks can still decide to attack the magnates (privates wars between PLC magnates was maybe uncommon but still possible) while still respecting their oath of alliance or loyalty to the King.

Next :
The Cossacks will be even more willing to attack by sea the coastal Ottoman territories so the Commonwealth will have a never ending series of diplomatic troubles or wars with the OE...

Next :
What prevent Russia to ally with the semi-autonomous Cossacks champion of the Orthodox Faith in the PLC in a major war against this country ? The Cossacks being able to gain a full independance and territories populated by orthodox ruthenians peasants for whom they are heroes.

Finally such an independant state will only stay independant if protect by the PLC until the end of the XVII century and if protected by Russia since then... And because this independant Cossack state represent a danger for all three of his neighbours, and because it is unable to defend itself, it will only survive if backed by one of its powerful neighbour.

 

[Hvalrossen]

There was the attempt to create the “New Moscow” colony in Africa:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagallo
https://www.rferl.org/a/africa-sagallo-russian-colony/26934711.html

The Persian Cossacks were also key in establishing the Pahlavi dynasty in Iran (Reza Shah was a general in the Cossack Brigade). So I guess you could count Imperial Iran from 1920s onward as a “Cossack state” if you squint just right (or you could make it *more* of a Cossack state with a few changes)

If the cossacks in Djibouti had managed to create a atleast nominally independant state then it would fullfill the premise of this thread.

 

[The Militant Doberman]

So I was reading an article on various ethnic armies of the Russian Empire when I came across something interesting and rather relevant to the thread:

During the First World War there was a project for the creation of the Euphrates Cossack army, which was proposed to be recruited from Christians - Armenians and Assyrians, as well as Yezidis of the Middle East.

So, maybe here is another possible way to create an “independent Cossack states outside the Russian Empire”: the Euphrates Cossack Host is set up in WW1 to fight the Ottomans and, in the aftermath of the war & the dissolution of the Turkish empire, the victorious powers agree to create a Kurdish/Assyrian ethno-state ruled over by the Euphrates Cossacks?