OTL Cortez only had around 3000 Spainiards, backed up by around 150,000 Tlaxcala, who were understandably angry about their prisoners having been sacrificed for a century. What if Cortez decides he doesn't need the help of the Pagan "barbarians" and procedes to rape pillage and loot his way to Tenochitalan, can he take it alone?
Could Cortez have taken the Aztecs himself?
- Thread starter Parmenion
- Start date
No, especially since Cortez was basically alone (he escaped from Cuba, then governed by Diego Velazquez, and became free from his authority, which later caused Velazquez to send an expedition to arrest Cortez). Ignoring or not allying with the Tlaxcaltecas will only cause Cortez to either be dominated and forced to escape, or die (be killed). Of course, that doesn't mean that the native peoples won't have troubles later, especially because of the appearance of smallpox and black death.
Small conquering force sooner or later need locals to garrison conquered cities or to administer them, if they don't start as allies then the conquistador can impose a more unequal condition on conquered populations in their conflict against the Aztec sphere.
But it would look like a very different conflict.
But it would look like a very different conflict.
I'm inclined to agree. The shock and awe of gunpowder and cavalry may get him to the capital, but Tenochitalan is so naturally defensible that I don't think 3,000 men can besiege it, regardless of their tech edge.
the spanish needed massive numbers of local collaborators, relying only on spanish troops is just a needless self sabotage, because every spaniard killed takes potentially months to replace from spain while native auxilliaries are right there and in large part were very happy to assist spain in destroying the aztecs.
Yeah the scenario becomes a bit silly when taken to its logical conclusion, it's best re-interpreted as "the Spanish are less diplomatic, pragmatic and persuasive than OTL"
FairlyUninformedGraduate
Gone Fishin'
If he's not allied to the Tlaxcala, isn't it even more severe - his lines of communication simply don't exist? How does he advance intot he centre of the Aztec Empire without secure supply and communication lines? By the time he reached Tenochitalan the Aztecs had grown more accustomed to fighint his men IOTL and didnt flee at the sound of gunshots or the sight of horses. So he would arrive with dwindling supplies, unsure of his escape route, undermanned for a seige, facing a far more numerous foe who are no longer scared of him and know the terrain. Man to man his advantage drops - in terrain where he cannot charge them with cavalry and too close to reload firearms, its a hacking fest and despite their steel gear numbers will start to tell, and eventually, Cortez's heart ends up on an altar.
Did he not at first have 500 men, later enforced with 1100 men taken from Narvaez?
Yes. He left about 200 men in Tenochtitlan and confronted Narvaez with the remainder.
I'm not sure about the specifics, I just got the number from wikipedia
I misread the question as "Could Cortez have taken the Aztecs for himself?" ie: telling the Spanish to go and do one while installing himself as King of the Aztecs
To be honest, that would be an interesting POD. Pretty effective at killing colonialism in the cradle as now no-one will trust a potential Cortez 2.0 to not go walkies.
To be honest, that would be an interesting POD. Pretty effective at killing colonialism in the cradle as now no-one will trust a potential Cortez 2.0 to not go walkies.
Not likely. If Hernan Cortes refuses any native assistance, he'll probably reach the Aztec Empire but won't make it out alive. The Tlaxcalans and Otomi both fought the Spanish and dealt quite a few casualties to the conquistadors. If Cortes refuses the Tlaxcalans, then there's a chance that Xicotencatl II would try to wipe as many Spaniards as possible, keeping a few to help train his people to fight in a European manner against the Aztecs.