Long story short: I'm trying to find a suitable wife for a prince in a timeline I'm working on, I know what family I'd like him to marry into but the only eligible daughter is a bastard. She married a Lord in otl, so a semi-prestigous marriage shouldn't be out of the question, but would it be "beneath" a royal prince to do so? The marriage would 100% be for political reasons so there won't be any eloping.
Could a royal heir apparent marry a bastard daughter in the mid 15th century?
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Seems like such a marriage would be controversial, unlikely but not impossible. Her status as bastard born is only one factor. What other factors are in play here? Whose daughter is she? What is her status in her family? Is there a chance for inheritance, or dowry?
In short i would answer, no but yes. In most cases it would probably not be possible.
In short i would answer, no but yes. In most cases it would probably not be possible.
I would say no, but since we don't know who are the members of this possible couple, I cant' say it with confidence (maybe her father is of enough rank and power that her bastardry becomes more or less irrelevant, or the grooms family is the one wanting a marriage with the bride's family and are so desperate for it that they decide to "lets just roll with it" in relation to her birth).
So, like the one above, it depends
So, like the one above, it depends
It's a bastard daughter of Philip the Good of Burgundy, who though only a Duke was a powerful and prestigious force in continental Europe. The Prince in question is from a Scandinavian country, so royal but also from one of the more backwater regions of Europe.
I once made the alt where manuel I (the fortunate) was the son of otl ferdinant duke of viseu and atl Isabelle de roubaix daughter of Jean V de Roubaix the burgundian noble who stood in for Philip the good for his marriage in portugal. At the time John II the current king had his own son and manuel had 2 elder brothers from a previous marriage (otl beatrice of portugal).
If this seems doable then you can make yours work as well.
I'm looking forward to your OTL
If this seems doable then you can make yours work as well.
I'm looking forward to your OTL
Denmark and Sweden both had incidents in the 17th century where Kings or Princes had morgantic marriage.
That is to say they had marriages between persons of unequal rank where the issue of the marriage were not considered heirs to the rank of the more senior parent.
I can't find anything more close in time to this relevant to scandanavia.
Can Philip the Good petition the Pope for his child to be declared legitimate?
That is to say they had marriages between persons of unequal rank where the issue of the marriage were not considered heirs to the rank of the more senior parent.
I can't find anything more close in time to this relevant to scandanavia.
Can Philip the Good petition the Pope for his child to be declared legitimate?
The most obvious example would be Eric of Pomerania's second marriage to his mistress Cecilia, that marriage caused a bit of an outrage but certainly Eric was by that point not very popular himself.
I suppose he could petition the Pope, the question is if he'd bother, he seems to have wanted most of his children married into French, English and Dutch families. Some of his bastards married German lords, but no one of royal rank.
The more I think of it the more problems there actually seem to be with this... I may have to look elsewhere for a wife.
Did Scandinavia follow morganatic principles at this point? Neither France nor the British Isles did. It was mainly a later HRE thing if I recall.
Well, from 1397 onward the ruling houses of Denmark and Norway were of german origin, and during the entire 15th century the rulers of Sweden were as well. So they probably would practice (it is difficult to know since none of them actually married morganatically until the 18th century when Frederick IV of Denmark-Norway married thrice, with his second and third wives being noblewomen. While in Sweden Eric XIV married a commoner without considering it to be morganatic in the 16th century but he was deposed for that)
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In this timeline the Scandinavian prince in question wouldn't be completely German (only on his mother's side), but I wonder if it wasn't a problem before that either?
Well Morganaticism arose because a large difference in rank can cause problems. Look at Edward IV of England and his Wydeville marriage.
Well, the last danish monarch to marry someone who wasn't a german noblewoman as Niels of Denmark in the 1130s, when he married Ulvhild Hakansdotter (who also married two different Swedish kings, Inge II and Sverker I). In Sweden, the last one was Eric XI of Sweden (but while his wife was the daughter of a nobleman, her mother was a Swedish Princess).
Morganatic and equal marriages are confusing (and often times don't make sense to me), but on this case (BTW, who are the parents of this probably ATL prince, maybe it can shed a light on if the marriage would be possible), I think if the bride (Anne of Burgundy) brings with her a good dowry and connections, they can overlook her less than stellar birth (and besides, the pope can always just be asked to make her legitimate, the Grimaldis did it and they were of much lower rank, why couldn't the burgundians do it as well?)
The prince in question is the grandson of Olaf II of Denmark (Son of Queen Margaret) and Margaret of Brandenburg (Daughter of Fredrick I).
As for the Burgundian side Bastards were better regarded than you would think. Males even more than women, but she is definitely considered part of the family if recognised. Philips did recognize 18 bastards and gave them good mariages. It all depends on the political terms. No papal interference necessary.
Well Scandinavian monarchies were at least formally electives, the Duke of Burgundy was really powerful and Scandinavian Kings has married simple noblewomen or commoners without too much troubles (who if presents were not always related directly to the rank of the bride)
Yes, that is true
Did the Lithuania particularly care about bastards? (having recently been pagan and still fairly lenient on those in its borders) Asking primarly in the contects of a no union pod. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianization_of_Lithuania#:~:text=The Christianization of Lithuania (Lithuanian,last pagan country in Europe.
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If you don't change the direction of your timeline, it could be a great plot point.