Confederat States Baseball League.

My Take on Slavery

Southern slavery was based on African slaves being an inferior people. Nothing would threaten that ideology than an African team or player beating a white team. Not only would I say that there would be no integrated play I would go so far as to say that Africans would be banned from playing at all even for fun. I don't think plantation owners would like the idea of slaves working together as a team. Even in a post slavery CSA this ideology would most likely be enforced.
With indusrialization there would have been less and less need for slaves. The bottom would have fallen out of the slave market. Wile it would still be legal it would fall into disuse. There might be a few domestices but, that would be about it. Freed blacks would leave the CSA were they are not welcome. Unless slavery reinvented it's self somehow it would stop being much of an issue.
 
I think blacks would eventually be given freedoms in an independent CSA. Due to the geopolitical realities of its situation, it would not be able to keep out influence from the USA, Britain, and Canada. Slavery would probably be abolished by the force of international opinion before it became economically obsolete, but either way, civil rights movements would eventually appear, and a growing number of white Confederates would speak out against the racist policies of the government.

But the key word here is "eventually". It would be very slow going. Even in OTL America where the South lost and slavery was abolished nationwide in the 1860s, it took another century for the civil rights movement to gain enough steam to make real changes. It would be much slower in an independent CSA. Many blacks would leave, but not all of them, and the ones who did remain would face perhaps another couple of decades of slavery, then, in my opinion, a very similar but slowed-down version of the OTL uphill battle moving from official discrimination, to unofficial but tolerated discrimination, to grudging elimination of unofficial discrimination, and finally to mainstream acceptance and equal rights.

Eventually they'd even be allowed to play sports, and eventually they'd be fully integrated with the white teams. Would it have happened before 2010? No idea. But it would have had to happen eventually. International opinion is very clear on such issues now, and the CSA would not be able to keep up its officially racist policies forever.
 
My apologies to the OP for hijacking this thread, but it wasn't my intention.

Anyway, good points regarding whether or not blacks could play professional baseball by 1900.

However, while unlikely, there are certainly plausible alternate histories in which a CSA could have gained its independence, and emancipated its slaves well before 1900. While the defacto and legislated discrimination would no doubt exist in the CSA following emancipation, a number of things could have happened to lessen it significantly. Large scale migration of freedmen in the years immediately following emanicpation to western staes in the US (if allowed to immigrate), would have caused the CSA to be less concerned with maintaining its power base if the percentage of blacks in the various states was significantly less. So by 1900, I could see black professional leagues in the South, if emancipation had occurred at least 12 to 15 years prior.
 
I'm having trouble seeing a black professional league much earlier than our time line because the abolition of slavery was postponed. There were a few failed attempts to start a professional baseball league for Africans starting in the late 1880s but the first semi-successful one wasn't until the 1920s.

Here's a question though. Since most early teams had nicknames based off of their colors do you think there could have been a team with brown or black as one of their main colors called something like the Savannah *insert politically incorrect term for African Americans*? I believe there would be based on the fact that we have sports teams today with teams called the Redskins. But then again the plantation aristocracy would most likely be bankrolling these teams and may veto it.
 
Here's a question though. Since most early teams had nicknames based off of their colors do you think there could have been a team with brown or black as one of their main colors called something like the Savannah *insert politically incorrect term for African Americans*? I believe there would be based on the fact that we have sports teams today with teams called the Redskins. But then again the plantation aristocracy would most likely be bankrolling these teams and may veto it.

My initial reaction is to say that it's not as likely as the Native American-based names. The general trend (though obviously not an absolute rule) is for sports teams to have names that convey a sense of strength and ferocity. Centuries of wars had given white Americans a grudging respect for the military prowess of many Native American groups, so names like "Redskins" and especially "Braves" are, I think, meant to conjure up images of the "mighty Indian warrior" archetype and are more in line with names like "Vikings" or "Raiders". But with the blacks, their relationship with the whites had been, especially in the South, almost exclusively one of servitude. From a Confederate point of view, there's just no "manly" prestige in having your team mascot be an ex-slave.

That doesn't mean there won't be any such teams, of course. "Red Sox" is not a name to strike fear into anyone's heart, nor is "Orioles" or "Colts" or some others we could name. So it's possible one or two teams will go this route.

ETA:
And yes, I know my examples mix sports a bit. "Colts" is an especially surprising name to me, given the roughness and machismo of football in general. Still, if an OTL football team can call itself, in effect, the Baby Horseys, then I suppose there's nothing to stop some smartass Confederate team owner from ironically naming his team after some horribly offensive black stereotype, especially in baseball.
 
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The thing is, some black stereotypes did indeed portray them as strong, savage, ferocious.

"Buck" for example, could be used, with obvious connotations.
 
Well, I know their were collegiate sports being played in Texas prior to 1900.

However, the primary reason no southern city "sported" a professional baseball, or other sports team prior to mid-1900s, is because it took 50 plus years for the south, especially its cities, to recover following a devestating civil war, and post war policies (both self imposed as well as Washington imposed) that inhibited growth, properity, population expansion, and industrialization.

Presumably an independent confederacy, that either won a war, or didn't have to fight one at all, would have grown and prospered much moreso than OTL post-bellum south did. Nevertheless, baseball, football, and basketball all gained popularity first in the North, and then that popularity moved South and West. If relations between the CSA and the USA were good, and there was somewhat free movement of peoples between the countries, then, I could see professional baseball and football catch on and be successful in the larger southern cities by 1900. But I would expect the growth of the cities in the CSA to be along the Mississippi River and large ports. So by 1900, largest CSA city is New Orleans, with next largest cities being Memphis, Mobile, Louiville (if Kentucky comes into the CSA fold), Norfolk, and probably Charleston and Savannah. Cities in Texas may have grown much faster if in an independent CSA, so cities like Galveston, Dallas, and San Antonio may be large. Nevertheless, since easy and quick movement between cities is crucial for teams to be able to play each other regularly, more isolated places probably would not have professional sports.

Anyway. The Conferate Association in 1900 could have:
4 western teams -
New Orleans Captains (named after steamboat drivers)
Memphis Grays (shortened from Gray Stockings)
Mobile Pirates (reference to old history of Mobile as a place where pirates sought safety and rest.
Louisville Pilots (another steamboat driver name)
4 eastern teams -
Norfolk Planters (obvious reference to traditional name)
Arlington Blues (originally shortened from Blue Socks, but then later changed again to Blue Jays) I could see both Norfolk and Arlington grow into large industrial population centers in Virginia.
Charleston Gents (short for Gentlemen - you know those Charleston folks were always snobbier than they rest of the South)
Savannah Rebels (popular name in the CSA to commemorate the "heroes" with the vision for independence)

Now, if by 1900, the CSA has had some type of peaceful emancipation process, you would probably see an entire black league as well. Would the two leagues play each other in 1900? Probably not, but I would hope that relations between blacks and whites in this CSA would not be as poor as in OTL south.
All good sugestions. It leaves out Birmingham Barrons, New Orleans Pellicans and Atlanta Crackers from OTL.
 
How about the Jackson Colonels since according to the movies that was the only rank officers held.

or

The Wilmington Runners (short for Blockade Runners)
 
Nick Names

How about the Jackson Colonels since according to the movies that was the only rank officers held.

or

The Wilmington Runners (short for Blockade Runners)
Their were Lousville teams called Colonials OTL. What country or league they would be in is another thing. Runners is an idea.
 
From Confederate Wank World

League of Confederate Baseball: est. 1900
Atlanta Athletics
Richmond Grays
Norfolk Mariners
Saint Louis Centrals
Indiana Hoosiers
Louisville Colonels
New Orleans Saints: Petersburg Saints: 1905-1959
Charleston Crusaders

United League of Baseball: est. 1910
The Cherokees: Play in Tulsa
Richmond Regiment: The Reggies
Miami Breakers: Virginia Beach Breakers: 1900-1949
Memphis Chickasaws: The Chicks
Saint Louis Cardinals
Tampa Tabaqueros: Ybor City Tabaqueros:1900-1966: Commonly known as the Tabbies
Houston Buffaloes
Kansas City Blues
Newport News Dukes

Yes its a real wank
 

Xen

Banned
Any independent Confederate League would be a minor league or a lower level Major League (ala Japan or Mexico). What is far more likely sometime in the 1960's or 1970's a Major League expansion will place a team in a large southern city such as Atlanta or New Orleans. I could see it being alot like Canada, having two teams for the next few decades.
 
This is what is cool about AH: postulating about certain cultural and societal aspects of an alternate world. How a US without the South and a CSA develop in the decades following a split (either violent - with war, or non-violent) is very intriguing (much moreso IMHO, than the nuances of alternate battles).

Anyway, I have always believed that if a unified CSA is to last until the 20th century, it must: 1) find a way to free the slaves; 2) industrialize, industrialize, industrialize, 3) become an attractive place for European and other immigrants; and 4) have a society based on the rule of law and provide civil rights (at least to the extent they existed in the US at the time) to all its citizens. Unless these things happen in a united CSA, it won't last until the mid 1880s in my opinion. It will splinter or be conquered, or both.

But if I were to wank a CSA world, I would have many large industrial cities similar to those in the US by 1900. Now nothing as large as New York, but many cities that are similar sized to Cleveland or Detroit or Pittsburgh. I would also have no racial segregation and so no need for a Negro league. With the money behind the league and its teams and the talent on the field, the Confederate League champion each year would regularly trounce whatever team from the US' National or American league won its championship. :D
 
The CFL and CSL

In football lots of top Canadians play in Canada. Top Confederate ball players would play for teams In the Confederate States League. Ty Cobb might have gotten along better in the south. Dizzy Dean was from either Texas or Oklahoma. He would be unknown in the north. OTL Verginias Scott Sizemore represents Toledo.
 
A Real Possibility

Let's assume that baseball gradually migrated south from the United States over the course of several decades following the War of Southern Independence. The first clubs were formed by former Confederate soldiers who had picked up the game while stationed north of the border during and immediately following the war, learned from the American soldiers they were guarding in the POW camps. By the late 1870s, baseball had spread to a new generation of young men who wanted to emulate the "heroes and patriots" who had fought in the war. Baseball spread into the colleges as students organized teams and competed against each other.

Jacksonville was the first city to sponsor a semi-professional team in 1874, nicknaming it the Veterans due to the large number of former soldiers hired to play. Many towns throughout the Confederacy followed the example set by Jacksonville, and competed against each other for recreation and town standing. The first association was formed in Georgia in 1880, comprised of seventeen local teams to form a standard set of rules for the game.

While baseball remained a popular past time, the professional teams sponsored by the larger cities quickly rose to prominence and dominated the teams of the smaller towns who couldn't afford to pay players. In 1887, the Confederate Association of Baseball (CAB) was established by the managers of seven major teams: Jacksonville, Savannah, Charleston, Atlanta, Birmingham, Norfolk, and Mobile. The managers chose an association president from amongst their number and set out to codify the rules of baseball for all teams playing professionally in the Confederacy.

From CAB, the Confederate League arose in 1889. While CAB was the governing body of professional baseball in the Confederacy until 1912, the League was the organization that held the sport together in the early days of professional paid baseball. As the wages of players and the cost of maintaining standardized facilities grew, cities began selling the teams to corporations and private owners. Despite the new corporate sponsorship, however, the nicknames teams had been known by for years stuck despite the new owners' attempts to give the teams new corporate names.

After the turn of the century, baseball's popularity had surpassed that of all other sports aside from horse racing. In 1901, the CAB established a regular season of play between March and June, with a championship game played the last Saturday in June to culminate the season. Professional managers and coaches were hired by the team owners as game attendance grew in the first decade of the new century. Many early coaches were former ballplayers themselves, most notably John "Red" Martinson (1842-1917), who had originally learned the game as a POW camp guard in Kentucky during the war and had played semi-professionally for the Jacksonville Veterans in the 1870s.

In 1912, the CAB formally merged with the Confederate League, becoming one body. By 1927, fourteen teams had joined the Confederate League, the same number that remains to this day. Industry standards on wages were set in 1948, effectively putting players and coaches on a sliding pay scale based on the experience, abilities, and game stats. This cut down on the inflation of wages that crippled the baseball industry in the United States in the 1960s and 70s, and allowed the Confederate League owners to earn a consistent profit year after year.

By the 1960s, the owners of the League realized that they were missing an untapped market, as colored citizens were still barred from attending professional games due to League regulations set in the 1920s. Since the Confederate segregation laws were still in effect at this time, the owners founded the Confederate Negro League in 1964, forming Negro teams in the major cities which contained the largest populations of colored citizens. The Negro League proved popular and profitable, as the Negro players and coaches were paid on a much lower scale than their white counterparts. After the end of the Jim Crow era in 1992, the white owners began to sell the Negro teams to colored co-ops specifically created for that purpose. The last Negro team was sold in 1999, ending white control of the Negro League, which is currently headed by Stanley Lincoln (b.1951), who played for the Birmingham Coloreds from 1970 to 1983 and coached the team from 1985 until the team was sold to a colored co-op headed by Lincoln in 1996 and renamed.

The Confederate League today looks much the same as it did in 1927. Ownership of the teams rarely changes as they generate considerable profit. The League is still governed by the owners and industry rules and regulations are closely guarded by the owners. The current season starts in early March and ends in mid-July, with teams playing three games per week on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday evenings just as they did in 1927. However, the season ends with Davis Series, named in honor of the first President of the Confederacy. The team winning the Series now competes against the winner of the United States' World Series in October.

Confederate League Teams
New Orleans Deltas (named for the delta region of the Mississippi River)
Atlanta Emperors (so called for Georgia's nickname as the Empire State)
Birmingham Steelers (named for the steel industry that arose after the war)
Memphis Forrests (named after Memphis hero Nathan Bedford Forrest)
Richmond Rebels (named after the colloquial for Confederate war heroes)
Nashville Philosophers (so called for Nashville's moniker as the Athens of the South)
San Antonio Ranchers (named after the local cattle industry)
Dallas Rangers (named after the famous Texas law enforcement agency)
Houston Oilers (named after the local oil industry)
Fort Worth Cowboys (named after the local cattle industry and stockades)
Norfolk Burgesses (named after the state legislature)
Savannah Thrashers (named after the state bird of Georgia)
Charleston Planters (named after the historic plantation class of the area)
Jacksonville Veterans (named after the war veterans who founded the team)
 
Or even cricket, maybe, though that's more doubtful.
I believe that Cricket was widely played in the US throughout the 19th Century. The first ever international cricket match was between the US and Canada in 1844 in New York.

Of course, as a spectator sport Cricket wasn't as commercially exploitable as other 'bat & ball' games, such as Rounders ..... errrr Baseball :)
 
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