Commodore 128/128D done right
- Thread starter tomo pauk
- Start date
Wasn't the main problem with the c128 that it didn't outperform the c64 sufficiently to justify developers dropping c64 compatibility for their titles, so you ended up with very little in the way of 128-only software and alot of 128 owners running c64 software most of the time?
I wonder if Commodore had got the idea to switch to cartridges earlier and more comprehensively update the performance then you may have ended up with the c128 being something like a cross between the C64GS and the C65, which would have been an interesting proposition in the mid 80s home computer market.
I wonder if Commodore had got the idea to switch to cartridges earlier and more comprehensively update the performance then you may have ended up with the c128 being something like a cross between the C64GS and the C65, which would have been an interesting proposition in the mid 80s home computer market.
Graphics need to be at least as good as in the CPC 464/6128, all modes usable without the hoopla as it was the case. Disk drive was a low point of the Commodores until Amiga, so geting the 5.25 in drive to be reasonably fast is a must. Faster memory transfers (2 mHz bus at least, 4 mHz is even better) and MMU.
Not much, but it's a start.
Not much, but it's a start.
marathag
Banned
Goes back to the C64 a victim of it's own success.
It was cheap, and expanding it wasn't as easy as was with the better architecture of the Apple or Atari 8 bits, and in 1985 money going to 8-bit development was questionable.
As was adding in CP/M support at this point.
That would have been killer in 1979-80 but not in '85
Better performing disk drive goes back to the limits of the C-64 serial input, as was the limitations of having multiple drives, unlike that Apple and Atari again that both had far faster transfer rates
So part of the problem is that it needed to be a better computer than it was, to allow the better performance a few years later.
Starting the Price Was was a mistake, to try and make bank on volume with an inherently unreliable hardware(looking at you, 1541 drives)
C-64 should have been retired with a better unitin 1984, that could have had a seamless bank switching setup in the OS and hardware to use the extra memory banks
It was cheap, and expanding it wasn't as easy as was with the better architecture of the Apple or Atari 8 bits, and in 1985 money going to 8-bit development was questionable.
As was adding in CP/M support at this point.
That would have been killer in 1979-80 but not in '85
Better performing disk drive goes back to the limits of the C-64 serial input, as was the limitations of having multiple drives, unlike that Apple and Atari again that both had far faster transfer rates
So part of the problem is that it needed to be a better computer than it was, to allow the better performance a few years later.
Starting the Price Was was a mistake, to try and make bank on volume with an inherently unreliable hardware(looking at you, 1541 drives)
C-64 should have been retired with a better unitin 1984, that could have had a seamless bank switching setup in the OS and hardware to use the extra memory banks
bundle geos operating system as de facto standard ( that with color monitor will put it in competition with first gen mac)
Nebogipfel
Monthly Donor
Ah, finally one of my favorite computer related AHs... I think it is difficult to get a 'maximium' C128 without delaying (or no) Amiga (as much as I loved my A1000). IIRC it was the very impact of Commodore/Atari introducing 16bit machines that led to the hastened introduction of the C128 as we know it, and it was probably the Amiga that triggered the arms race that probably killed the last, peak 8bit generation of home computers.
One problem with OTL C128 was that the specifics were result of a poll among C64 users on the Consumer Electronics Show in summer '84 . Many wanted a C64 compability, but also a C/PM mode. The prototypes were made in only 4 months (!) to be ready for the CES in January '85. Commodore at that time was in a transitional time after Jack Tramiel and some engineers left (for Atari), also the development was led by a young and unexperienced designer. So the C128 was obviously a very rushed design OTL. In order to get a better C128 by early 1985 developement has to begin earlier.
So: Tramiel/Atari buys Lorraine (proto-Amiga) in summer 84,Commodores last ditch atte mpt fails. Tramiel plans to produce a cheap, advanced 16bit machine rather soon. OTL Amiga 1000 was presented in Summer 85. But here there are some conflicts - Tramiel wants a the Amiga 256 cheap, stripped down mass market model compared to the original vision of a highly advanced system. Problem: Commodore still is not in a position to develop a 16bit machine in time (because of the brain drain to Atari.) So they have to get a somehow competitive 8bit machine on the market. The actual POD is early summer, so the user poll is butterflied away. So no CP/M required, which possibly frees up some resources (?) Also, without an Amiga to present in the following summer, the C128 is projected to be ready for the CES in summer 85.
One problem with OTL C128 was that the specifics were result of a poll among C64 users on the Consumer Electronics Show in summer '84 . Many wanted a C64 compability, but also a C/PM mode. The prototypes were made in only 4 months (!) to be ready for the CES in January '85. Commodore at that time was in a transitional time after Jack Tramiel and some engineers left (for Atari), also the development was led by a young and unexperienced designer. So the C128 was obviously a very rushed design OTL. In order to get a better C128 by early 1985 developement has to begin earlier.
So: Tramiel/Atari buys Lorraine (proto-Amiga) in summer 84,Commodores last ditch atte mpt fails. Tramiel plans to produce a cheap, advanced 16bit machine rather soon. OTL Amiga 1000 was presented in Summer 85. But here there are some conflicts - Tramiel wants a the Amiga 256 cheap, stripped down mass market model compared to the original vision of a highly advanced system. Problem: Commodore still is not in a position to develop a 16bit machine in time (because of the brain drain to Atari.) So they have to get a somehow competitive 8bit machine on the market. The actual POD is early summer, so the user poll is butterflied away. So no CP/M required, which possibly frees up some resources (?) Also, without an Amiga to present in the following summer, the C128 is projected to be ready for the CES in summer 85.
Nebogipfel
Monthly Donor
So what can we expect? Probably not that uch more than OTL I fear. A more rounded, 'mature' and less complex design (such as as mentioned, better bank switching - could this help with the graphics?) Particular the graphic chips needed some work. Also a bit more video RAM, needed for full high res graphic modes (C128 was interlace capable, up to 640*512 pixels...) 32 or at least 16 colors at 320*200 resolution should be doable. Everything accessible via the (great!) basic V7.0. Probably quite slow in these modes, but still... Also, some useful professional software early on should help - the whole office thing, similar to Amstrad Joyce but cheaper. So ATL C128, hits the stores after some delays autumn '85, just in time for christmas. The Amiga 256 ('Jackintosh') also suffers delays - first attempts for a 128K machine were shelved after a mutiny by designer Jay Miner and colleagues. Still, no one is really happy with the result in shown on the 85.