I was wondering, what colonial butterflies could appear with a POD in the early 19th century? Suggest anything you can think of from Danish Ghana to British Sumatra. But please explain your reasoning. So don't just post Austrian Congo, but explain how that could happen (maybe Belgium is partitioned between the Netherlands and France after the Belgian revolution, Portugual and Britain get into a war over southern Mocambique, so relations are ruined during the ATL treaty of Berlin, so another power gets the Congo, in this case Austria).
Colonial butterflies in the 19th century
- Thread starter pompejus
- Start date
Here's something no-one will probably know:
In 1807 a ship and its crew arrived in Whangaroa, New Zealand, with the intent of resupplying for a journey to England. The ship's captain held a watch up and the local Maori thought it was something sacred, so when the captain dropped it into the harbour (simply because he wanted to wind the Maori up, no less), the Maori forsaw an omen. Coincidentally, the ship's crew were carrying Influenza which spread to the Maori, killing roughly 60 people.
In 1809 the son of a Maori chief was aboard the convict ship Boyd. He was referred to as George by the ship's crew and had sailed from Sydney Cove to Whangaroa in New Zealand in October 1809. The ship was carrying 70 passengers having just dropped off convicts to Sydney and was on its way back to England via New Zealand.
On board, George refused to do his fair share of work because his culture dictated that he should be telling everyone else what to do, and therefore he was flogged for it.
When the ship arrived in Whangaroa in October, George was escorted back to his tribe, which then demanded retribution for the influenza victims (which of course they thought was because the captain had dropped the watch in the harbour) and killed 66 people aboard the Boyd in Utu, Maori revenge. This ruined European-Maori relations for roughly 5 years, delaying a lot of would-be colonization and trade.
A POD could be that the captain visits a different harbour in 1807 and resupplies somewhere else. This would prevent the 1809 Massacre in Whangaroa, so to speak, because the Maori would only demand utu for the flogging of George. The English could easily defend against this, and relations with the Maori would not deteriorate. This would mean that many missionary visits wouldn't be delayed until 1814 and other Europeans would be more inclined to get involved (particularly the French).
In 1807 a ship and its crew arrived in Whangaroa, New Zealand, with the intent of resupplying for a journey to England. The ship's captain held a watch up and the local Maori thought it was something sacred, so when the captain dropped it into the harbour (simply because he wanted to wind the Maori up, no less), the Maori forsaw an omen. Coincidentally, the ship's crew were carrying Influenza which spread to the Maori, killing roughly 60 people.
In 1809 the son of a Maori chief was aboard the convict ship Boyd. He was referred to as George by the ship's crew and had sailed from Sydney Cove to Whangaroa in New Zealand in October 1809. The ship was carrying 70 passengers having just dropped off convicts to Sydney and was on its way back to England via New Zealand.
On board, George refused to do his fair share of work because his culture dictated that he should be telling everyone else what to do, and therefore he was flogged for it.
When the ship arrived in Whangaroa in October, George was escorted back to his tribe, which then demanded retribution for the influenza victims (which of course they thought was because the captain had dropped the watch in the harbour) and killed 66 people aboard the Boyd in Utu, Maori revenge. This ruined European-Maori relations for roughly 5 years, delaying a lot of would-be colonization and trade.
A POD could be that the captain visits a different harbour in 1807 and resupplies somewhere else. This would prevent the 1809 Massacre in Whangaroa, so to speak, because the Maori would only demand utu for the flogging of George. The English could easily defend against this, and relations with the Maori would not deteriorate. This would mean that many missionary visits wouldn't be delayed until 1814 and other Europeans would be more inclined to get involved (particularly the French).
Cook
Banned
In 1893 French authorities in Indochina used a border dispute with Siam as justification to demand the cession of all territory east of the Mekong River. King Rama V of Siam appealed for assistance from the British but was told to settle on whatever terms he could get. This was followed by further territorial demands from the French in the following years.
What if Britain had agreed to guarantee the territorial integrity of the Kingdom of Siam in its Post 1893 boundaries, but on condition it became a protectorate? The precedence would be the British Protectorate of Brunei in 1888.
Britain then controls an arc of territory from the Indus River valley to the Island of Singapore and across to Borneo.
There would be no buffer between French Indochina and the British Empire but by the 1890s antagonism between Britain and France had largely declined.
What if Britain had agreed to guarantee the territorial integrity of the Kingdom of Siam in its Post 1893 boundaries, but on condition it became a protectorate? The precedence would be the British Protectorate of Brunei in 1888.
Britain then controls an arc of territory from the Indus River valley to the Island of Singapore and across to Borneo.
There would be no buffer between French Indochina and the British Empire but by the 1890s antagonism between Britain and France had largely declined.
Cook
Banned
In 1839 the Dutch Boer farmers in Natal founded the Natalia Republic. Unfortunately they attempted a form of democracy that rapidly degenerated into anarchy and the Republic was occupied by the British and became the province of Natal.
What if they’d chosen a more sober form of government for their small republic and not presented an easy opportunity for British expansion?
The Natalia Republic survives and, after the discovery of gold and diamonds in the Orange and Transvaal Republics it prospers as the principal Dutch Boer port independent of British or Portuguese control.
With a joint defence agreement between the three Boer Republics likely and a window to the world through Natal, British attempts to destabilise the republics would be more difficult and would come under the scrutiny of a continental European public opinion that was sympathetic to the Boer.
This may have made the Colonial Office more cautious and less inclined to allow Cecil Rhodes’ greed to dictate policy in southern Africa.
What if they’d chosen a more sober form of government for their small republic and not presented an easy opportunity for British expansion?
The Natalia Republic survives and, after the discovery of gold and diamonds in the Orange and Transvaal Republics it prospers as the principal Dutch Boer port independent of British or Portuguese control.
With a joint defence agreement between the three Boer Republics likely and a window to the world through Natal, British attempts to destabilise the republics would be more difficult and would come under the scrutiny of a continental European public opinion that was sympathetic to the Boer.
This may have made the Colonial Office more cautious and less inclined to allow Cecil Rhodes’ greed to dictate policy in southern Africa.
Cook
Banned
During the Napoleonic Wars the British took possession of several overseas Dutch territories including the Islands of Java and Ceylon. After the war Java was returned to Dutch rule but Ceylon was given over to Britain permanently in the Treaty of Amiens.
What if the bartering had gone the other way?
Britain keeps Java and neighbouring Sumatra but return Ceylon. British territory then runs south from Siam, down the Malay Peninsula to Singapore, across to Sumatra and Java. This gives them total control of the strategically vital straights of Malacca, gateway to the South China Sea.
The Dutch meanwhile would be developing the their Tea and Spice interests in Ceylon, possibly based on the enormous bay of Trincomali and trying to suppress the Kingdom of Kandy. Depending on the abilities of arms smugglers from British or Portuguese Indian territories Kandy could remain independent for some time, maybe making it to the modern era as another mountain kingdom like Nepal and Butan.
What if the bartering had gone the other way?
Britain keeps Java and neighbouring Sumatra but return Ceylon. British territory then runs south from Siam, down the Malay Peninsula to Singapore, across to Sumatra and Java. This gives them total control of the strategically vital straights of Malacca, gateway to the South China Sea.
The Dutch meanwhile would be developing the their Tea and Spice interests in Ceylon, possibly based on the enormous bay of Trincomali and trying to suppress the Kingdom of Kandy. Depending on the abilities of arms smugglers from British or Portuguese Indian territories Kandy could remain independent for some time, maybe making it to the modern era as another mountain kingdom like Nepal and Butan.
Why would Britain keep Sumatra and Java and return Ceylon? Britain was already expanding like mad in India while their only possessions in southeast Asia were a few trading ports in Malaya. Also, Ceylon is much more profitable than Sumatra and Java at this point and you don't have any problems with pesky independent natives.
I think it would be interesting to see an Africa with more Russian participation. Maybe a victory over Persia or the Ottomans gives Russia access to the Indian Ocean and/or the Mediterranean. This could lead to Russian interest in Egypt and the Red Sea area to secure the waterway and put them into even more colonial competition with Britain.
I think it would be interesting to see an Africa with more Russian participation. Maybe a victory over Persia or the Ottomans gives Russia access to the Indian Ocean and/or the Mediterranean. This could lead to Russian interest in Egypt and the Red Sea area to secure the waterway and put them into even more colonial competition with Britain.
Cook
Banned
Well yes you do have pesky natives. The Kingdom of Kandy was still independent.
And I would have thought control of the Straights of Malacca would be a pretty good reason. The other option would be keeping the lot and handing none of it back.
I think that the British would be far more interested in Ceylon than in the Dutch east Indies. They had been Dutch for centuries, so it is the most likely to be returned. They might keep Sumatra though, to control the straights (and they actually had a British colony on Sumatra) . But in that case I suspect the Dutch get compensated some how, like keeping west Guyana (British Guyana). That would lead to an interesting situation that the British would have nothing to offer to the Dutch, like during OTL Anglo-Dutch treaty in 1824. So the Dutch would keep Malacca and the Dutch outposts in India and decades later the Dutch gold coast outposts.
Flocculencio
Donor
To control the Straits of Malacca you essentially just need to hold Singapore and Malacca (Penang is a bonus but not essential). Whoever controls either of these two can close the Straits. There aren't any really good port locations on the Sumatran coast and control of Sumatra is essentially irrelevant to controlling the Straits.
This is why in the 1824 treaty Britain was very, very careful to stipulate that the Dutch give up any claim to Singapore even though at the time it was just a five year old struggling colony.
A few days ago I had the insane idea that maybe Prussia could start to become a colonial nation between 1856 and 1871 by buying Tierra del Fuego (then called Preußisch-Feuerland) with a treaty signed by Prussia, Chile, Argentina and the U.S.A., all thanks to Prussian chancellor Otto von Bismarck!
This would have increased the prestige of Prussia (and later Germany), thus giving Germany more opportunities during the Berlin Conference, making it a full-fledged colonial power.
This would have increased the prestige of Prussia (and later Germany), thus giving Germany more opportunities during the Berlin Conference, making it a full-fledged colonial power.
Well in 1815 Singapore didn't exist and Malacca was still Dutch, although it would still be more logical in that case to keep Malacca and let the Dutch have Sumatra (and I still suspect something in return for Malacca, most likely western Guyana).
That would be one of the most awesome placenames ever. Not just Land of Fire, but Prussian Fireland!