Electroplating. Like (according to the most plausible hypotheses) the Baghdad batteries. It would be a rare and esoteric device anyway, not lik we're going to be dealing with advanced electrical engineering yet.
Collaborative World Project
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Electroplating. Like (according to the most plausible hypotheses) the Baghdad batteries. It would be a rare and esoteric device anyway, not lik we're going to be dealing with advanced electrical engineering yet.
While we're on the subject of metallurgy, I'm planning on one of my societies producing steel in limited qualities. I checked with a friend who's working towards being a steelworker, and he said it was possible with Bronze Age and Iron Age tech (indeed, my own Wikipedia search said the same), but does anyone here have any objections?
Sure, I am considering development of steel in Region A as well. If the society has the means to produce wrought iron the process carburization can produce steel in some amounts. This will lead to the first steel weapons that can rival bronze weapons in strength and be produced cheaper due to need of only one metal. Bronze weapons will still be produced and will be much better than iron weapons, but more expensive. So the hierarchy will be something like Iron - bronze - steel when it comes to weaponry and tools.
When people are talking about 'steel' as a general category what they tend to mean is 'high quality iron', especially when talking about premodern societies. So yes, absolutely steel is plausible with this level of technology. For example, the term Noric Steel is bandied about a lot, but that's not what the Latin term means- it only ever uses the Latin word for iron as a whole. There is no single consistent use of the word steel in the English language's history, precisely because most of the time it's being used to mean 'good iron' and has retroactively been applied as such to refer to 'good iron' in other past societies, but is also used to refer to some specific substances like crucible steel and stainless steel, and can also specifically refer to iron-carbon alloys.
Given all of this, if we're using 'steel' to mean iron of sufficient quality to make reliable weaponry and tools then yes, steel is plausible in this period. Modern commentators refer to Roman steel, for example, which is absolutely an iron age development. High grade iron is known from the 2nd millenium BC in parts of Africa, and in early Chinese history, and in Archaic era ancient Greece, and many other places. It will save you a lot of linguistic and philosophical headaches trying to work out what modern historians mean by 'steel' if you instead treat the term as 'high quality iron'.
Even if we restrict ourselves to 'iron with impurities that partially substitute for carburisation' or 'iron with sufficient carbon to make it strong' then yes, societies with our current level of technology have developed steel.
Given all of this, if we're using 'steel' to mean iron of sufficient quality to make reliable weaponry and tools then yes, steel is plausible in this period. Modern commentators refer to Roman steel, for example, which is absolutely an iron age development. High grade iron is known from the 2nd millenium BC in parts of Africa, and in early Chinese history, and in Archaic era ancient Greece, and many other places. It will save you a lot of linguistic and philosophical headaches trying to work out what modern historians mean by 'steel' if you instead treat the term as 'high quality iron'.
Even if we restrict ourselves to 'iron with impurities that partially substitute for carburisation' or 'iron with sufficient carbon to make it strong' then yes, societies with our current level of technology have developed steel.
That should be a major chunk of the *Pama-Nyungan languages, which is what I was using as the basis for Nungarrd, Laladr, Wajajad/Katsenid, and Nawara place names/words, and I also had the Wasak end up with more P-N influenced placenames over time due to the influence of so many other southern states. It's also an underlying influence in the languages of the Sunflower Coast towards the north, because the two overlap a fair bit in that region
Just wondering, but why is there no language isolates on the map? There should be at least 6 or 7 on the main continent.
Mostly because the language map was pretty much a means to an end- i.e just to give us a decently fair start at trying to establish a basis for languages and placenames. Therefore it concentrated on that rather than a super detailed linguistic map that would be more like a real map of spoken languages. There's nothing to stop any particular area to have one or two isolate languages, but it also means that we're operating blind as to its basis- we've used existing isolates, like Elamite, as bases for entire language families on here, so we'd have to make stuff up on our own to some extent.
In addition, think about real language isolates- we've got no reason to believe that they didn't ultimately belong to what used to be a big language family that mostly disappeared only leaving scattered pockets. Etruscan was functionally an isolate until Lemnian and Rhaetian were properly discovered, so the theory has to be that originally it was part of a wider language group of which most evidence has vanished. In other words, most of our isolates will come from language families existing for so long that their various branches mostly die out leaving only scattered remnants.
In addition, think about real language isolates- we've got no reason to believe that they didn't ultimately belong to what used to be a big language family that mostly disappeared only leaving scattered pockets. Etruscan was functionally an isolate until Lemnian and Rhaetian were properly discovered, so the theory has to be that originally it was part of a wider language group of which most evidence has vanished. In other words, most of our isolates will come from language families existing for so long that their various branches mostly die out leaving only scattered remnants.
I remember ViperHawkz a while back trying to make a Civ V map based off the Central Continent, so I'm trying to make one based off the hex-map he posted.
I actually still have that stuff floating around. That said, I won't be disappointed if you make one. The one I did was full of miscalculations with size and shape, it was pretty awkward.
I've finished a first draft of the map, with resources, biomes, topography and rivers all set up on it. They need to be refined, though.
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Fauna Propositions
Central Continent
-American bison/European bison: Bison provide a good source of meat and hides for the peoples of the northern regions of the continent. Bison tongues are a delicacy and their meat's taste is comparable to high quality beef from cattle. Bison herds can be found in the north in grasslands, scrublands, semi-arid areas, and lightly wooded areas. Their numbers are beginning to dwindle due to over-hunting by humans. Note: Both species of bison are found in the north. The American species in the northwest and the European species in the the northeast.
-Eurasian cave lions: Holdouts persist in the far northern regions of the continent and feature in some legends of the indigenous peoples of the north(can be expanded upon later). This subspecies of lion is on the road to extinction around this time period. Most of the holdouts can be found in the mountain range of the northwestern peninsula.
-Sivatherium: Inhabit the savannahs of the central continent. Their antler-like ossicones fetch high prices in marketplaces throughout the continent.
-Pelorovis: Potential domesticate for desert communities?
-Neanderthals: Holdouts persist in the World Mountain range and other mountain ranges in the north. The legend of the Mountain men strikes fear into the hearts of those passing through the mountains in the northwest.
Tell me what you think of my write ups.
Central Continent
-American bison/European bison: Bison provide a good source of meat and hides for the peoples of the northern regions of the continent. Bison tongues are a delicacy and their meat's taste is comparable to high quality beef from cattle. Bison herds can be found in the north in grasslands, scrublands, semi-arid areas, and lightly wooded areas. Their numbers are beginning to dwindle due to over-hunting by humans. Note: Both species of bison are found in the north. The American species in the northwest and the European species in the the northeast.
-Eurasian cave lions: Holdouts persist in the far northern regions of the continent and feature in some legends of the indigenous peoples of the north(can be expanded upon later). This subspecies of lion is on the road to extinction around this time period. Most of the holdouts can be found in the mountain range of the northwestern peninsula.
-Sivatherium: Inhabit the savannahs of the central continent. Their antler-like ossicones fetch high prices in marketplaces throughout the continent.
-Pelorovis: Potential domesticate for desert communities?
-Neanderthals: Holdouts persist in the World Mountain range and other mountain ranges in the north. The legend of the Mountain men strikes fear into the hearts of those passing through the mountains in the northwest.
Tell me what you think of my write ups.
I'd rather not have neanderthals in Concordia. Not only will it be extremely difficult to plausibly write, considering what little we know of Neanderthal behavior and society vis-a-vis behaviorally modern humans, I am not convinced personally of the likelihood of Neanderthals surviving.
It didn't result in any drastic rolls for my region so I hadn't really had an explanation at my end, but given the timing I think there's a very good argument to be made for it representing the instability caused by the increasing use of iron, and its effect on long established tin, copper, and bronze trade routes. That even gives a good explanation for the lack of much impact in the Sunflower Coast- it had no connection to those routes at all.
Also, about the Neanderthals- I understand your reservations, the reason it's being brought up is that at an earlier stage in the project there were a lot of ideas to try to incorporate other humans into Concordia, and the one that had the most traction was having remaining Neanderthal populations kicking about in the big World Valley mountain ranges. We've been umming and erring about it ever since, so I'm also not complaining about you objecting to it. But I'm just pointing out the history of the concept with the Concordia project
As for the animal suggestions not involving Neanderthals, Pipochubs, all of those seem like plausible species and locations for them within the continent. The one thing to bear in mind about domesticates is that human activity will tend to spread them further than their natural range, and/or result in breeds that can colonise additional climates and environments. But in terms of natural ranges, all of these make sense.
There is one other thing- 13,000 TY has one more milestone. In addition to being the point at which we have complex societies emerge in the North of the Central Continent, this is also the beginning of the Neolithic in the North-Eastern continent, when crops and animals are first domesticated by the societies living there. This is why I made sure to make an extra-size map for the North-Eastern continent. This also means that we will have to pretty imminently do the same thing of mapping out some initial societies that we did with the Central Continent in advance of the history. But! We do have one major advantage- the continent is far smaller and there's only one big epicentre for agriculture, so this is not a task on an equal scale to the Central Continent. According to our most recent resource maps there are no significant deposits of tin there, so no tin bronze societies, which simplifies things a little further. The current date for 'history' beginning in the NE continent should still be around 14,500 TY. I'd rather not increase that number, because otherwise we might well end up with what looks to be a carbon copy of Columbian Exchange happening which is a) a little bit boring and b) kind of unfortunate to end up with when there are so many factors that suggest this need not come to pass. If people want to revise that 14,500 number down because we're not dealing with tin-bronze, I'd be happy with that, especially as it's entirely possible to have complex urban cultures without significant metallurgy as our planet's own history indicates. But either way, my strong suggestion is still 14,500 TY or earlier.
Also, about the Neanderthals- I understand your reservations, the reason it's being brought up is that at an earlier stage in the project there were a lot of ideas to try to incorporate other humans into Concordia, and the one that had the most traction was having remaining Neanderthal populations kicking about in the big World Valley mountain ranges. We've been umming and erring about it ever since, so I'm also not complaining about you objecting to it. But I'm just pointing out the history of the concept with the Concordia project
As for the animal suggestions not involving Neanderthals, Pipochubs, all of those seem like plausible species and locations for them within the continent. The one thing to bear in mind about domesticates is that human activity will tend to spread them further than their natural range, and/or result in breeds that can colonise additional climates and environments. But in terms of natural ranges, all of these make sense.
There is one other thing- 13,000 TY has one more milestone. In addition to being the point at which we have complex societies emerge in the North of the Central Continent, this is also the beginning of the Neolithic in the North-Eastern continent, when crops and animals are first domesticated by the societies living there. This is why I made sure to make an extra-size map for the North-Eastern continent. This also means that we will have to pretty imminently do the same thing of mapping out some initial societies that we did with the Central Continent in advance of the history. But! We do have one major advantage- the continent is far smaller and there's only one big epicentre for agriculture, so this is not a task on an equal scale to the Central Continent. According to our most recent resource maps there are no significant deposits of tin there, so no tin bronze societies, which simplifies things a little further. The current date for 'history' beginning in the NE continent should still be around 14,500 TY. I'd rather not increase that number, because otherwise we might well end up with what looks to be a carbon copy of Columbian Exchange happening which is a) a little bit boring and b) kind of unfortunate to end up with when there are so many factors that suggest this need not come to pass. If people want to revise that 14,500 number down because we're not dealing with tin-bronze, I'd be happy with that, especially as it's entirely possible to have complex urban cultures without significant metallurgy as our planet's own history indicates. But either way, my strong suggestion is still 14,500 TY or earlier.
Any idea as to how many cultures we should develop initially for the North Eastern continent? My initial guess would be one or two urban cultures with 2 or 3 non urban cultures initially.
I also feel that we should probably not include Neanderthals as well. There is a lot we don't know about their culture and society plus it is likely that Neanderthals would have been made extinct just as much through being bred out of existence as through an inability to compete with modern Humans.
I also feel that we should probably not include Neanderthals as well. There is a lot we don't know about their culture and society plus it is likely that Neanderthals would have been made extinct just as much through being bred out of existence as through an inability to compete with modern Humans.
Looking at the continent, I'd agree. I might suggest three urbans, one for each larger river on the northern coast, with two non-urban cultures. More are likely to show up over time but that's fine.
My one concern is that we now have a confluence- rolling for a very developed South, starting to roll for initial Northern history, and also figuring out the cultures we'll be dealing with in the North-Eastern continent. Not all of these are very taxing in terms of amount of work but it is a lot of stuff to try to keep track of.
To that end, is there anyone who would like to work on other stuff who isn't already working on history writeups in some way?
Also, in lieu of the NE Continent becoming important, I've altered the 'arbitrarily-titled region map': http://i.imgur.com/2cr4FZO.png
The 'North Eastern Cradle' as it's often been referred to is now going to be consistently referred to as Region E, to keep some kind of standardisation going with that. So now we have Regions A-D, on the Central Continent, and Region E on the North-Eastern, all of which are the site of independent development of agriculture.
My one concern is that we now have a confluence- rolling for a very developed South, starting to roll for initial Northern history, and also figuring out the cultures we'll be dealing with in the North-Eastern continent. Not all of these are very taxing in terms of amount of work but it is a lot of stuff to try to keep track of.
To that end, is there anyone who would like to work on other stuff who isn't already working on history writeups in some way?
Also, in lieu of the NE Continent becoming important, I've altered the 'arbitrarily-titled region map': http://i.imgur.com/2cr4FZO.png
The 'North Eastern Cradle' as it's often been referred to is now going to be consistently referred to as Region E, to keep some kind of standardisation going with that. So now we have Regions A-D, on the Central Continent, and Region E on the North-Eastern, all of which are the site of independent development of agriculture.