Carter 1976 result without Playboy Interview

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Deleted member 145219

Jimmy Carter, in the run up towards the 1976 General Election, gave an interview to Playboy magazine where he admitted to "committing adultery in his heart and looking upon other women with lust." What was probably meant to be an attempt to discuss the rigors of being an Evangelical Christian in the 1970's instead turned into one of the bigger mistakes made by a Presidential candidate. Arguably to be topped by Ford's much discussed and debated gaffe on the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe.

Suppose that Carter avoids the Playboy interview, and nothing else changes, what is the result of the 1976 election? I used to be of the opinion that Carter winning by more would set him up for a better Presidency. My correspondence with Vidal and my reading of Jimmy Two has moved me away from that view. Specifically Carter's problems were not a result of his narrow election, but other matters.
 
West234

West234

He might do marginally better but honestly from what I know people primarily were concerned with other problems that the nation was facing at the time. Also, I don't think it would affect the results in the congress so much getting a bigger win in the election doesn't translate to an easier time running the administration a bigger win in the congress does that.
 
Admiral Bloonbeard

Admiral Bloonbeard

West234 said:
He might do marginally better but honestly from what I know people primarily were concerned with other problems that the nation was facing at the time. Also, I don't think it would affect the results in the congress so much getting a bigger win in the election doesn't translate to an easier time running the administration a bigger win in the congress does that.
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He might have won Oregon, Maine, Iowa, Oklahoma, Virginia, South Dakota, California, Illinois, and a few other states but he won't win in a landslide.
 

Dancing Fool

LivingSteam said:
I used to be of the opinion that Carter winning by more would set him up for a better Presidency. My correspondence with Vidal and my reading of Jimmy Two has moved me away from that view.
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I kind of go back and forth on Carter, too! :)

He was a southern Governor who seemed to believe (1) you put together a winning piece of legislation, and (2) you convince the passive state legislators to get on board.

When in fact—

The U.S. Congress is a large, professional body and they want to be involved from the beginning.

In addition . . .

In Jan. 1977, Tip O’Neill was a brand new Speaker of the House. And the guy who was Majority Leader of the Senate was also brand, spanking new!
 

Somedevil

Dancing Fool said:
I kind of go back and forth on Carter, too! :)

He was a southern Governor who seemed to believe (1) you put together a winning piece of legislation, and (2) you convince the passive state legislators to get on board.

When in fact—

The U.S. Congress is a large, professional body and they want to be involved from the beginning.

In addition . . .

In Jan. 1977, Tip O’Neill was a brand new Speaker of the House. And the guy who was Majority Leader of the Senate was also brand, spanking new!
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I always have wondered if Carter had a different VP? Mondale honestly seemed to been too willing to take a back seat even tho he had the US Legislative experience is there anyone that could of been picked as VP beside Teddy that would of been the type to tell Carter the facts on how it work in a way he listened . I feel in many ways he could of been a very good two term president had he been able to deal with both houses of congress better.
 

Deleted member 145219

Admiral Bloonbeard said:
He might have won Oregon, Maine, Iowa, Oklahoma, Virginia, South Dakota, California, Illinois, and a few other states but he won't win in a landslide.
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Swing all of the states Carter lost by less than 5 points, he ends up at 443 Electoral Votes. If Carter won all the states he lost by 10 points or less, he's at 499 Electoral Votes.
 

Dancing Fool

Somedevil said:
I always have wondered if Carter had a different VP? Mondale honestly seemed to been too willing to take a back seat even tho he had the US Legislative experience
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I’m sorry, I don’t think I’m going to be with you on this one.

In general, I think the Vice-Presidency is “not worth a warm bucket of piss.” I mean the office, not the person. I would challenge you or anyone else— Give me one example of a post-WWII Vice-President who was majorly and effectively involved in their administration?

Bush, Sr as Reagan’s VP ? ? Reagan was cordial, and he invited Bush to a once-a-week lunch. But in no way was Bush involved in the inner circle of the Reagan administration.
 

TRH

Dancing Fool said:
I’m sorry, I don’t think I’m going to be with you on this one.

In general, I think the Vice-Presidency is “not worth a warm bucket of piss.” I mean the office, not the person. I would challenge you or anyone else— Give me one example of a post-WWII who was majorly and effectively involved?

Bush, Sr as Reagan’s VP. Reagan was cordial and invited Bush to a once-a-week lunch. But in no way was Bush involved in the inner circle of the Reagan administration.
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Notoriously, Dick Cheney.
 

Dancing Fool

TRH said:
Notoriously, Dick Cheney.
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Dick Cheney has the persona of the asshole boss. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. I mean, if you’re president, you want people to be a little bit afraid of you.

Look, I know liberals like to rag on Cheney as a bad guy. But I’m just not convinced he had all that much power and influence in the George W. Bush administration (2001 - 2009). I’d like to see the BBC article, or maybe a Vox article.
 
West234

West234

Dancing Fool said:
Dick Cheney has the persona of the asshole boss. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. I mean, if you’re president, you want people to be a little bit afraid of you.

Look, I know liberals like to rag on Cheney as a bad guy. But I’m just not convinced he had all that much power and influence in the George W. Bush administration (2001 - 2009). I’d like to see the BBC article, or maybe a Vox article.
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He was hevealy involved especially with foreign policy to my knowledge. It’s not like he held power over the president or anything but he was still very influential on the foreign policy of the Bush administration.
 

TRH

Dancing Fool said:
Dick Cheney has the persona of the asshole boss. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. I mean, if you’re president, you want people to be a little bit afraid of you.

Look, I know liberals like to rag on Cheney as a bad guy. But I’m just not convinced he had all that much power and influence in the George W. Bush administration (2001 - 2009). I’d like to see the BBC article, or maybe a Vox article.
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BBC or Vox? Those aren't the publications you'd look towards to gauge something as subjective as one person's influence in an Administration. But if you're going to be the one guy in the world to defend Dick Cheney as both not bad and not important, here's a research paper that goes into the structural factors behind his unusually powerful vice presidency: https://scholarship.law.slu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1522&context=faculty

Funnily enough, it's also relevant to the prior comments about Mondale since it points out that he was the first VP to enjoy a lot of organizational and relational advantages in serving as an advisor and troubleshooter for the president that weren't there previously, including a ground floor office in the West Wing, regular meetings with the president to discuss strategy and default inclusion/access to meetings and information that were previously reserved for the president alone.
 

Somedevil

Dancing Fool said:
I’m sorry, I don’t think I’m going to be with you on this one.

In general, I think the Vice-Presidency is “not worth a warm bucket of piss.” I mean the office, not the person. I would challenge you or anyone else— Give me one example of a post-WWII Vice-President who was majorly and effectively involved in their administration?

Bush, Sr as Reagan’s VP ? ? Reagan was cordial, and he invited Bush to a once-a-week lunch. But in no way was Bush involved in the inner circle of the Reagan administration.
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Chaney is one of the people I was thinking of but LBJ was more of the type I was thinking of. A guild for Carters legislative Agenda who had the Gravitas that Carter would listen to him but not enough power to completely shape Carters Agenda away from the overall goals Carter had. Add in something I said in other threads on Carter he was a Engineer first and foremost not a lawyer so he came at his agenda differently and he tried to get his agenda done in a different way the other presidents .
 

Dancing Fool

West234 said:
He was hevealy involved especially with foreign policy to my knowledge
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TRH said:
But if you're going to be the one guy in the world to defend Dick Cheney as both not bad and not important, here's a research paper that goes into the structural factors behind his unusually powerful vice presidency: https://scholarship.law.slu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1522&context=faculty
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I’m willing to read this source like a magazine. Which means scanning and skipping big parts. I’m sorry, but that’s just the way I roll. So if there’s a particular part you really want me to see, please post it here.

In regards to Sept. 11th, 2001, I’ve heard Dick Cheney criticized for being prepared to shoot down a hijacked plane.

I’d ask, Was he reminding Sec. of Defense or Chair of Joint Chiefs of established protocol on the one hand, or was he trying an emergency change of protocol on the other?
 
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Dancing Fool

TRH said:
Mondale . . . including a ground floor office in the West Wing, regular meetings with the president to discuss strategy and default inclusion/access to meetings and information that were previously reserved for the president alone.
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Holy Shit, the fact that we have to list these “improvements” shows how far from power the Vice-Presidency used to be.

He’s a heart beat away from the presidency, and not provided with the same info as the president? I mean, we’re going to treat the VP as the goddamn office boy ? ! ?
 

Dancing Fool

TRH said:
his [Dick Cheney’s] unusually powerful vice presidency: https://scholarship.law.slu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1522&context=faculty
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page 14:

“Cheney ran the search process [for Bush’s VP], controlled information about prospective candidates, and reported to Bush from time to time.”

************

Okay, a previous working relationship + George W. Bush is a big delegator.

Okay, I’m warming to the idea that Cheney was in the center flow of the Bush administration.
 
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