Can You Wank a Turkey?

The First Balkan War of 1912 radically altered the political landscape of southeastern Europe, and while all the members of the Balkan League saw major gains, there was disagreement concerning who got what which led to the second Balkan War a year later. So, my question is, would it be possible for the First Balkan War to be a total clusterfuck for the balkan powers?

How much can you wank the Ottomans?

Bonus points if the peace treaty sees a status quo ante bellum.

an Internet cookie if the Ottomans get some land back from the balkan powers.
 
If you can get it to spiral out of control (maybe an Italian ship gets sunk by the Balkan powers or someone shoots at the Austrians?) that might help the Ottomans.
 
...I mean, I could try, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't end well for either party.

Like all of AH, it all comes down to logistics. You're gonna need to A.Hold the Turkey in place or B. Have the Turkey understand where this pleasure is coming from so it doesn't move. I think A would be easier, so all I need to do is restrain it. I know of a group of wild Turkeys that loiter around my neighborhood, so finding a suitable subject would not be so difficult. Still, I don't think I could do it- it goes against my morals.

Wanking Wild Turkeys aside, An Ottoman wank and a Turkish wank are two different things (although not necessarily mutually exclusive, of course). Which one would you prefer?
 
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OTL was a Turkwank
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The Ottomans had a good run I guess...but the question is: could the Ottomans be wanked to stop the minor balkan powers from picking up the last major pieces of real estate in south east Europe?

Keep those turkeys firmly under control whilst wanking them!!!
 
The short answer is that it is going to be very difficult to wank the Ottomans in 1912.

First, their European border was very long and had two centers of gravity (Macedonia in the west, Thrace in the east), between which communications were almost impossible once the single railroad was severed. They were essentially fighting on four fronts with no interior lines of communication.

Second, the 1911 war with Italy had seriously drawn down war stocks of all kinds -- artillery and small arms ammunition, weapons, etc. The entire Ottoman army had 713,000 rifles when it required 1,092,000! Total artillery stockage was about 620 rounds per gun.

Third, the Ottoman transportation system was horrible, resulting in mobilization going far too slowly. On the 20th day of mobilization, the Eastern Army had received only 132 of the required 247 trainloads of men and equipment, and was short many thousands of horses; it went to war with about half its authorized combat infantry strength. The Western Army was in the same shape; V Corps alone was short about 20,000 (!) soldiers, meaning it was only at 40% authorized strength. Only three Corps in Europe had their complete (already inadequate) artillery complements. The transportation corps was short 47,000 draft animals. The Ottomans needed at least fifty days for proper mobilization; they actually got thirty.

Fourth, something like twelve complete regular regiments from the armies in Europe were deployed various places (as far away as the Hijaz) fighting bandits. That's essentially two corps worth of fighting troops. Many of the units which were present for combat had a platoon, company, or battalion deployed elsewhere.

Fifth, the recent growth of Greek naval power resulted in one entire Corps (XV Corps) being removed from the Eastern Army's order of battle in order to guard the Dardanelles from seaborne invasion; a second complete corps of reservists from Anatolia (XVI Provisional ) didn't arrive in time for the early battles, due to the danger of shipping it by sea. At least one additional regular division (6th Nizam) was retained in garrison in SW Anatolia to likewise guard against invasion. The flow of reserve divisions and individual replacements from other parts of the empire (the Western Army needed 40,000 individual infantrymen from Anatolia) was greatly slowed or even stopped.

Altogether, between slow mobilization, anti-banditry deployments, and difficulty of movement by sea, the Eastern Army started the war with about 450,000 of the expected 750,000 men. The Western Army had perhaps 200,000 of a planned 500,000.

Sixth, the equipment of the entire army was poor, with few machine guns, many outdated artillery pieces, and the reserve (Redif) divisions lacking even modern small arms.

Seventh, most Redif divisions proved insufficiently trained for modern warfare. Even the regular divisions were badly trained: all four regular army corps of Eastern Army reported that 60 percent of their soldiers were poorly trained and unfamiliar with their rifles -- and remember, that's 60 percent of the ones actually available, which itself is only about half of the ones originally planned for!

Eighth, while the Ottoman senior commanders had imbibed German operational ideas, they failed utterly to understand troop-to-task realities, resulting in them squandering their formations in head-on attacks against superior forces in an effort to achieve an encirclement battle, when they would've done much better standing on the tactical defensive.

So in order to do very much better, you need at least three or four of the following: Greek naval power reduced; no 1911 war with Italy; comprehensive transport infrastructure improvements; a more stable domestic situation (no banditry); comprehensive (and expensive) updating of weaponry for both the regular and reserve armies; considerably better training; a High Command with a better grasp of the realities of combat; and probably a willingness to largely abandon the western region in order to consolidate forces in the east.

I reckon this would require multiple early PODs, and seems implausible anyway, given the condition of the Ottoman state in this period. They just don't have the resources.

Or, of course, you need their opponents to be significantly reduced in strength or unity of purpose.

The easiest thing to do would be to have the Greek cruiser Averof blow up, strike a rock, or suffer a catastrophic engineering casualty in about early Sep 1912. The Averof was the most powerful ship in either fleet, and its presence was the main threat to Ottoman sea lines of communication; if it is inoperational, the Ottomans can feel assured of at least naval parity, and probably slight superiority. This would permit transportation of XVI Provisional Corps from Anatolia, and free XV Corps from guarding the Dardanelles; it would also allow the maximum shipment of individual replacements from the rest of the empire (though how many will arrive in time for the opening battles is uncertain). But all this together won't radically change the course of the war.

Source: Defeat in Detail: the Ottoman Army in the Balkans, 1912-1913 by Edward J. Erickson. I highly recommend it. For one thing, it contains the complete expected, and actual, Ottoman orders of battle.
 
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turkey for the most time had a really low population - just some 15 million for turkey itself at the start of ww1.

it would look a whole lot different if it reached 80 million a century earlier than it did.
 
An Ottoman Revival in the second half of the 19th Century

So in order to do very much better, you need at least three or four of the following:

1) Greek naval power reduced;
2) no 1911 war with Italy;
3) comprehensive transport infrastructure improvements;
4) a more stable domestic situation (no banditry);
5) comprehensive (and expensive) updating of weaponry for both the regular and reserve armies;
6) considerably better training; a High Command with a better grasp of the realities of combat;
7) and probably a willingness to largely abandon the western region in order to consolidate forces in the east.

I reckon this would require multiple early PODs, and seems implausible anyway, given the condition of the Ottoman state in this period. They just don't have the resources.

Or, of course, you need their opponents to be significantly reduced in strength or unity of purpose.

Source: Defeat in Detail: the Ottoman Army in the Balkans, 1912-1913 by Edward J. Erickson. I highly recommend it. For one thing, it contains the complete expected, and actual, Ottoman orders of battle.

I agree. The Ottomans have to modernise and industrialise like the Japanese did after the Meji Restoration to create these resources and they would have to start modernising at about the same time as the Japanese did.

They would have developed an armaments industry capable of building a navy strong enough to defeat the Greek Navy and deter the Italians from starting the 1911 War. That would solve points 1 and 2.

The modernisation and industrialisation would include the improved transport infrastructure required in point 3.

The armaments industry would have to be large enough to fulfill point 5 and the modernisation/industrialisation would have to make the Ottoman Empire rich enough to afford it (and the larger navy).

If this had happened the Ottoman Empire would also have performed better in the First World War.
 
Post-1900 ? Nah. Though with securing Baku Ottomans will be in position to support Enver's Turkestan project, which they won't necessarily follow through because Enver was an arrogant asshole.
 
@Tallil2long: :eek::eek::eek: HOLY. SHIT.

I didn't know that the situation was really THAT hopeless for the Turks...
I had read that the war with Italy was a major reason for why the balkan league did so well. I didn't realize in general that the Turks were so useless.
 
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