Anaxagoras
Banned
Is there any conceivable way for the electric telegraph to be invented before the invention of gunpowder weapons such as artillery and firearms?
Can the electric telegraph be invented before artillery/firearms?
- Thread starter Anaxagoras
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Since gunpowder has been used militarily since the ninth century or so, I would say probably not.
Well, there is circumstantial evidence to suggest ancient knoweldge of electricity, in the form of the Baghdad Battery, but you'd need to come up with a POD to explain how to get from that to controlled electrical impulses, in an age without science.
Depends on how mainstream you want to go with the history of science and technology. Older stuff and in the wrong places pops up all the time, especially in China. See the book "Ancient Inventions" or Joseph Needham's histories of Chinatech. You'd probably have base it semi-ancient China, say contemporary with Rome as you need copper wire (which is pretty old albeit for jewelry-making), battery and power technology (the Chinese understood magnets and were building water wheels and windmills back then so making the jump there to spinning the magnets on a wheel is reasonable, same way it happened in Western Europe.) Telegraphic keys and relays could certainly be made with known materials, China was quite advanced in metalcasting and some machining. The Chinese at various stages had clusters of scientists, engineers, and academics at sites, like technology incubators/Library of Alexandria, and many brains combining various technologies, methods, and observations would make the most sense. You'd need a sizable country with a good road infrastructure and relatively low crime to put up a telegraphy network with valuable copper wire, again China might be the best bet. Perhaps the improved communications and the resulting electrical devices craze would take the impetus off of gunpowder development, either in diverting the researchers/engineers or their funding/attention. It'd make an interesting alternative timeline.
The main problem with a Chinese invented telegraph is the written language which if pictograph. The simpliest form of telegraph is binary (on/off dot/dash) it is relatively easy to change 26 alphabet symbols into a series of dots and dashs but to do it with every word would be very difficult. The Romans might have a shot.
What you'd need would be a code book with basically binary numbers (dots and dashes) coding individual words
000001 = Send
000010 = Message
000011 = soldier
000100 = peasant
000101 = noble
000110 = army
000111 = regiment
001000 = bushel
001001 = rice
001010 = millet
...
1xxxxxx = number 0-31
whatever. You'd probably need more than 6 bits.
The "evidence" is slim that those artifacts were even batteries, or electrical in any way. There's zippo to show that people in those times understood that there was such a thing as electricity or that it could be transmitted over distance through conducting materials.
An early discovery of such a thing wouldn't be ASB, but any TL for it would have to be pretty much made up from whole cloth.
I see where you are going, and in that regard it would probably be easier to do this:
01=A
02=B
03=C
04=D
And so on, but again, you have to come up with a POD, where they understand what electricity is, and not only how to create it, but how to control it as well.
I think what he's getting at is a way to make Chinese workable on a telegraph, not English or any other language with letters.
It'd probably be the Romans building it: the investment cost of the copper would be enormous; you'd need a large empire to get any use out of it; and you'd literally have to crucify thieves from the telegraph poles to prevent wholesale theft.
How much would a /cursus telegraphicus/ cost per mile (compared to horses)?
Let's see: copper telegraph wire would be at least 100 lbs/mile, or 1500 troy ounces/mile, or 750 aes worth of copper per mile.
Therefore, an eight mile stage would require 6,000 aes worth of copper.
According to Procopius, there were 40 horses on each 8-mile stage; at 100 denarii for a horse, each stage would cost 4000 denarii or 64,000 aes.
So at a first glance, a /cursus telegraphicus/ would seem to be much cheaper, if the Romans somehow came up with the technology.
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Cheapest of all would be some kind of heliograph network, which would require relatively decent mirrors and lenses.
Just mirrors, really. Dependent on sunshine, though. No messages at night or in bad weather.
I'm pretty sure the Romans had torches and lamps. Bad weather is still a problem.
As telegraph system would be hugely more expensive to build, but much cheaper to maintain and - this may become important - have far higher capacity. But the cursus publicus wasn't really a postal system as much as an emergency message relay, and it is quite possible that even if they had figured out the telegraph, they would not use it that way. There was no mature market for such services yet.
Alex Richards
Donor
There was already something similar to this where the use of the positioning and lighting of different torches from a signal tower was used to send a set of basic, pre-coded messages (e.g. lit lit off lit lit could mean 'send reinforcements').
Exactly. Someone upthread wondered how you could possibly do Chinese on a telegraph, given the thousands of characters.
Certainly the tech is a problem. Even IF we had batteries, you're going to need LOTS of them, and they won't be cheap (they can't recharge them, so they'll have to resmelt the metal electrodes as they get used up). Plus the copper wire, which would be hugely expensive.
The Optical Telegraph (which the French spent a LOT of money on) is a lot more doable. Yes, it only works in good weather, but it's a lot better than nothing, and faster than horses.
I think it is likely they were but they were extremely low power. Good enough for metal plating or electropuncture but not a telegraph.