Byzantine Empire converts to Islam

[Tyler96]

This came up relatively recently, I think - only thing I could really come up with is a Muslim son of one of the late Byzantine-Ottoman marriages briefly holding some amount of power somewhere as a sort of nominal ‘emperor’ or claimant.

There’s some tragicomic potential in a particularly despondent Emperor, perhaps an alt!Constantine XI with the Ottomans literally battering down the gates, trying for some absolute last minute Hail Mary by converting and then immediately being done away with.

Neither really fit OP’s specifications:

I know many argue this, but the key difference is that I am seeking an internal shift rather than an external force to achieve this.

The wishy washy weaselly way of doing this might be nudging things so that Islam is considered a branch of Christianity and thus Muslims are more able to integrate into imperial structures (e.g. some military strongman who adheres to the rustic provincial sect of “Islamic Christianity” making a play for the throne and displacing the prim and proper Orthodoxy)- but that would probably require changing Islam so much that it is no longer recognisably Islam?

 

[Karl der Große]

The wishy washy weaselly way of doing this might be nudging things so that Islam is considered a branch of Christianity and thus Muslims are more able to integrate into imperial structures (e.g. some military strongman who adheres to the rustic provincial sect of “Islamic Christianity” making a play for the throne and displacing the prim and proper Orthodoxy)- but that would probably require changing Islam so much that it is no longer recognisably Islam?

Good thinking but yeah, I think a core identifier of all Christianity is belief Jesus is God or the son of God. A core identifier of all Islam Jesus is the penultimate prophet, and born of a virgin, but not divine in any way.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

The Homoousius versus Homoiousius debate

While the current discourse between Oriental Orthodox and Catholics have admitted translation being part of the issue, if that was the only issue both churches would have united by now.

 

[Karl der Große]

While the current discourse between Oriental Orthodox and Catholics have admitted translation being part of the issue, if that was the only issue both churches would have united by now.

Well I never said that's the ONLY thing they tore each other into pieces over.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

The wishy washy weaselly way of doing this might be nudging things so that Islam is considered a branch of Christianity

Islam was considered a Christian heresy for a while in the West, at least until around the start of the crusader era.

A quite rapid conversion by the emperor might do it, tho that would then cause the series of events to make everyone know it is a separate religion, occur faster.

But Heraclius was looking for an excuse to unite the Miaphysites and Chalcedonians what if he adopts the Islamic compromise of just going, "we're Monotheists" it would be unpopular and probably fail but his OTL compromise was similarly unpopular and at least lasted till his death.

The Quran would be the next issue, it'll have to be imputed in a way to cause the least controversy. Hell, it could even affect the way New Testament cannon exists today because some books were removed not because they contradicted scripture but because they didn't have focus on Jewish tradition stuff (certainly, this is what happened to the Shepard of Hermes, probably what happened to the epistle of Barnabas as well).

Maybe the Quran joins the NT? But that wouldn't be Islam, it'll have to replace the NT to be Islam so let Islam be take like a clear divine summary for all previous scripture, to resolve all the earlier arguments over creed. After all, that's basically part of modern Muslims own claim for what makes Islam correct.

And after the centuries, the same way the Antilegomena and Deuterocannon were relagated by revolutions in Christianity, the other scriptures are relegated, maybe an alt-Reformation finally just decided to do away with all other scripture but the Quran.

 

[Bulgarian Lion]

In fact, the core of the Byzantine Empire - Asia Minor - accepted Islam, the Ottoman State was initially called the Sultanate of Rome, and some Greeks praised Sultan Mehmet II the Conqueror as the "Byzantine Emperor" and advocated the unification of Islam and Orthodoxy. Geopolitically, Byzantium and the Ottoman Empire had the same goals.

 

[Evil Crusader]

In fact, the core of the Byzantine Empire - Asia Minor - accepted Islam, the Ottoman State was initially called the Sultanate of Rome, and some Greeks praised Sultan Mehmet II the Conqueror as the "Byzantine Emperor" and advocated the unification of Islam and Orthodoxy. Geopolitically, Byzantium and the Ottoman Empire had the same goals.

By 1453, it's a different world. However, I am pretty sure nobody seriously proposed the religious unification, the Greeks were simply more than happy being "Better under the Turban than under the (Papal) Tiara".
And the emphasis on Roman succession only lasted up to Suleiman's reign, after which the Caliphate was by far the largest factor in State legitimacy.

 

[Tibi088]

Im not very good on theology but there are a few aspects that I think are absolutely important in this question that hasent really been brought up:
1. Wasnt inconoclasm infuenced by islam?
2. The byzantines for a good while did not regard Islam as a different religion, but as a christian heresy. This is important because earlier, when the Empire was encompassing all of the eastern meditarrenean, a good chunk of the population was following various heresies and the Empire did try on multiple ocassion to bridge the theological divide (usually only resulting on the rise of new heresies).
3. The Empire did not prevent the rise of various heretic Emperors.

From all of that what I think:
If the Empire conquered a huge number of muslim subject, whom it would continue to regard as heretics, there is not out of the question for a heretic - as in muslim - Emperor to gain the throne (also an attempt to create a new mixed religion). So yeah, if a byzantine Empire, especially a Iconoclast byzantine empire, was wildly successfull in reconquering and conquering a lot of muslim territories, sooner or later a muslim might come to power and the Empire itself might convert.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

2. The byzantines for a good while did not regard Islam as a different religion, but as a christian heresy. This is important because earlier, when the Empire was encompassing all of the eastern meditarrenean, a good chunk of the population was following various heresies and the Empire did try on multiple ocassion to bridge the theological divide (usually only resulting on the rise of new heresies).

But that was in part due to Islam not being familiar to them and still in its formative stage. Even if it continues to be regarded as a heresy, there's quite a difference between a single christological difference that separated Miaphysites from Chalcedonians vs several christological differences plus a completely different scripture for Islam. Once they get familiar with it, either they call it a different religion or treat it as an even greater extent of heresy than the rest.

With that said, I don't know if this would be enough to stop ur timeline.

 

[Evil Crusader]

Im not very good on theology but there are a few aspects that I think are absolutely important in this question that hasent really been brought up:
1. Wasnt inconoclasm infuenced by islam?
2. The byzantines for a good while did not regard Islam as a different religion, but as a christian heresy. This is important because earlier, when the Empire was encompassing all of the eastern meditarrenean, a good chunk of the population was following various heresies and the Empire did try on multiple ocassion to bridge the theological divide (usually only resulting on the rise of new heresies).
3. The Empire did not prevent the rise of various heretic Emperors.

From all of that what I think:
If the Empire conquered a huge number of muslim subject, whom it would continue to regard as heretics, there is not out of the question for a heretic - as in muslim - Emperor to gain the throne (also an attempt to create a new mixed religion). So yeah, if a byzantine Empire, especially a Iconoclast byzantine empire, was wildly successfull in reconquering and conquering a lot of muslim territories, sooner or later a muslim might come to power and the Empire itself might convert.

There's plenty of other threads about this. Funnily, it's practically all politics!
1. Yes, and such influxes happen, but eventually wax and wane. In the end, the Empire still had enough to lose in the West (and no corresponding gains in the East) that it couldn't accept Iconoclasm.
2. Pecu's points are correct; additionally, in an Empire that identified itself so strongly as Christian as the Late Roman Empire did, dissent often manifested and was expressed as heterodoxy, with the Emperors actively supporting orthodoxy with preferential treatment for "the Emperor's Christians". In this context, initially viewing Islam as a further step on the Miaphysitism of the Ghassanids wasn't particularly exceptional.
3. The rise of "heretics" is more due to the weakness of the legitimate rulers that enabled the powerful Armenian lords to march west more than a specific rise in heretic thought; the century between Yarmouk and Leo the Isaurian essentially marks the end of the Christological controversies that had plagued the Empire, with the religious disagreements gradually buy firmly shifting from a theological to a political background.

An Empire that is as successful as you say early on will just resume its Late Imperial religious policies, but even a late reconquest will leave Islam as a large minority at best.

 

[Zireael]

Maybe the Quran joins the NT? But that wouldn't be Islam

It would be a syncretic Christian-Muslim hybrid religion

EDIT: which would be an interesting topic to cover but unlikely for Byzies

 

[Nivek]

The byzantines for a good while did not regard Islam as a different religion, but as a christian heresy.

Citation needed and Robert hoyan doesn't count

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

I think the whole "Caliphate and Ummah are one and the same thing" that early medieval Islam had would be a major barrier as conversion would require the Emperor's political submission to the Caliph.