BURNISHED ROWS OF STEEL: A History of the Great War (Foreward)

TFSmith121

Banned
Yeah, not so's that you'd notice...

I'm glad you are taking Historical information about the Winters of the time period into account. Makes quite a bit of difference when the St. Lawrence opens and closes for the year.

As of 1861, apparently closure of rails at two points (one in Central PA , one along the southern coast of Lake Erie would have been enough to sever the connection between Chicago and the East, not sure if that would be a target.)

I need to go through the story, I think another TL indicated that there were some war materiel (sp?) that the Union had to import (Gunpowder?)

Not powder, nitrates (i.e., saltpeter) and the issue is simply that the cheapest source of such in 1861 was human and animal waste processed in India; it's not like manure and urine was non-existent anywhere else in the world.

There were (and are, for that matter) significant natural deposites of nitre throughout North America, including plenty that had been tapped during the Revoutionary War and 1812-15 conflict for gunpowder production, including major deposits in the Midwest that would remain safely behind US lines in any imaginable conflict.

These issues are discussed in BROS, even - in light of the mention of Col. Vinton - in the most recent chapter; there are those who argue this is somehow a war winner for a putative British-rebel alliance, without making the leap that whatever the Russians ran out of in 1854-56, or the French in 1803-15, or the Boers in 1880-81, it was not manure and urine...

Railways are also discussed in BROS, and various maps are posted - here's a nice zoomable map one: five crossing Ohio, alone, in 1860:

http://etc.usf.edu/maps/pages/2800/2889/2889z.htm

Here's another one:

rail.str.0243.02.jpg


Best,
 
Not powder, nitrates (i.e., saltpeter) and the issue is simply that the cheapest source of such in 1861 was human and animal waste processed in India; it's not like manure and urine was non-existent anywhere else in the world.

There were (and are, for that matter) significant natural deposites of nitre throughout North America, including plenty that had been tapped during the Revoutionary War and 1812-15 conflict for gunpowder production, including major deposits in the Midwest that would remain safely behind US lines in any imaginable conflict.

These issues are discussed in BROS, even - in light of the mention of Col. Vinton - in the most recent chapter; there are those who argue this is somehow a war winner for a putative British-rebel alliance, without making the leap that whatever the Russians ran out of in 1854-56, or the French in 1803-15, or the Boers in 1880-81, it was not manure and urine...

Railways are also discussed in BROS, and various maps are posted - here's a nice zoomable map one: five crossing Ohio, alone, in 1860:

http://etc.usf.edu/maps/pages/2800/2889/2889z.htm

Here's another one:

rail.str.0243.02.jpg


Best,

OK, never mind on the Nitre issue. And I'm not sure what else the Union could be blockade on that would be required to conduct war...

Went to remove the Railroad comment, but all of the maps do show that *three* spots could sever the RR, one in West Virginia, one north of that in the stretch east of Pittsburgh and the third at the PA/NY border along the lake. Not sure that would be a concern though.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
But even that...

But even that...

It's not like the Americans weren't capable of building, rebuilding, and repairing railroads - there's this individual, and the organization he led:

usmrr-haupt-m.jpg


http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2011/summer/usmrr.html

One of the exercises I went through when I started pulling the orders of battle together was reviewing Cullum's register of USMA graduates; not surprisingly, because West Point was (arguably) the leading engineering school in the US in the first half of the Nineteenth Century, more than a few of its graduates went into engineering-intensive careers after their military service, including the munitions, ordnance, materials, and mining and chemical industries on one end and transportation and communication on the other, including - not surprisingly - railroads.

And the Lincoln Administraition was well aware of the capabiities railroads gave the US war effort - Lincoln had, after all, been an attorney for railroads in the Midwest; McClellan was formerly a railroad president; Thomas A. Scott, who was Cameron's undersecretary and stayed on when Stanton took over, had been VP of the Pennsylvania Railroad, rising from station master to number two on the line.

And in comparison, the BNA railway net was tiny; basically there was one east-west road worth the name, the Grand Trunk, and that ran from Sarnia to south of Quebec City before taking a detour through US territory to Portland, Maine; there was no "all British" connection with the Maritimes, meaning no ice-free port in BNA territory. Plus, the GTR ran along the border, or at least south of the Saint Lawrence, for most of its length.

And whatever else the US state miltias could do in 1861-62, they could certainly guard railway lines...

The more one really looks at it, the more obvious it becomes.

Thanks for the post.

Best,
 
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I'm not sure if you have mentioned it or openly disclosed it, but what is the breakdown regarding diplomatic relationships between the main players being the United Kingdom, the USA and the CSA and the other great powers? Are there any great or medium powers that are potentially waiting in the wings for events to fall their way?
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Nations, as had been said, do not have permanent friends

I'm not sure if you have mentioned it or openly disclosed it, but what is the breakdown regarding diplomatic relationships between the main players being the United Kingdom, the USA and the CSA and the other great powers? Are there any great or medium powers that are potentially waiting in the wings for events to fall their way?

Well, my basic take on it is that nations - large and small -do not go to war upon caprice, even in the Nineteenth Century.


And they certainly don't have permanent friends.


Which of course is part of what makes BROS and any other "Anglo-American war in the 1860s" scenario pretty questionable, but given the number of people who seem convinced it would lead to various walkovers of various sizes, I thought it would be interesting to actually plot it out, month by month, based on historical precedent in the era and without steam tanks, armored dirigibles, or any of the usual dross... much less operations IMPERIAL STORM or "'Murca, eff yeah!: Part Two: This time it's patriote..."


Having said that, however, to get to some sort of point of departure, I had to rely on either the Americans or the British doing something not in their self-interest, and given the historical reality of 1861-65 and the contrasting personalities of Mr. Lincoln and Mr. Temple, pretty much have to bet on the septugenarian being the one who'd be foolish.


Add in the cascade of causus belli I have tried to offer up in BROS, and presumably it is at least slightly plausible, as opposed to the usual "Britain goes to war over an hours' delay in the mails" nonsense of Trent Affair-based scenarios - even Lord Cupid wasn't that reckless...


But having said that, I also figured historical reality provides a worthwhile pool of evidence for alternate history, and predicated my "furrin" involvement (other than the British and BNAers, of course) on the adventures the various powers actually chose to get involved in in the early 1860s, with an eye toward the lessons of the 1850s and what engaging in a foreign war with the third largest economy in the world in 1860 and at trans-oceanic distances was likely to "win" in return...


So, the French - as they were historically - are messing around in Mexico, and the Spanish - as they were historically - are messing around in Hispaniola; the Prussians, Russians, and Austrians are (as they did historically) basically facing off over who gets to run Central and Eastern Europe, either in competition or alliance of convenience, along with the likely side trips to the Baltic and/or Black seas; the Turks are, basically, simply trying to hold on to what they have; the Italians, basically, are trying to birth their particular bambino; and the other European powers are basically doing what small neutrals usually do in wartime, make money and try and stay out of the way.


In the Western Hemisphere, the Mexicans are fighting off the French, the Dominicans and Haitians are dealing with the Spanish, the Grenadines/Colombians are fighting "their" civil war, and the rest of the Latin American nations are basically doing what they did historically (national consolidation, smacking around various rebels, etc) and making what money they can by trading with whoever they can...


The reality is that modern history is replete with examples of various powers, large and small, saying "let's you and him fight" and reaping the benefits of just that... plenty of coat holders, of course. Austria in the 1854-56 conflict, Prussia in the 1863 Russo-Polish conflict, Britain and France when the Prussians and Austrians ganged up on Denmark, France and Denmark again when the Prussians and Austrians went at it, etc. etc. etc...


The French had joined in with the British twice in the previous decade and gotten close to nothing for it; given they had their own war to fight in Mexico in 1861-67, seems rather unlikely that they'd actually pull the trigger on a third fool's errand. God knows the British didn't do anything for them in 1870-71, despite the blood shed in 1854-56 and 1860-61...


So the long and the short of it is that - absent the various "acts" necessary even to get an Anglo-American war in 1862, I'm not killing off even more butterfies by dragging in the French, Spanish, Prussians, Russians, Austrians, etc - at least not 3,000 miles from home.

Plenty of opportunities much closer to the respective supply chains, however.;)


Thanks for reading, and the question. Anything in particular prompt it?


Best,
 
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Nothing in particular, I was just thinking about the overall strategic direction of BROS and was considering the possibilities of a greater conflagration, particularly as each additional great power is drawn into either the main or a 'side conflict.'

Rather well thought out response to my question.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Thanks ... I suppose part of it is simply trying

Nothing in particular, I was just thinking about the overall strategic direction of BROS and was considering the possibilities of a greater conflagration, particularly as each additional great power is drawn into either the main or a 'side conflict.'

Rather well thought out response to my question.

Thanks ... I suppose part of it is simply trying to avoid too many changes from history.

Having said that, there's a reason the subtitle is "A History of the Great War's Forward"...;)

If there was going to be a general conflict among the great powers in the West in the 1860s, it was not going to be in the western hemisphere, and certainly not on the continent where there was already a dominant power, and had been (essentially) since 1848...

It would likely be on the continent where there was not such a power, and where, in fact, the question of whether there would be one, and if so, which one, was still up in the air.

Best,
 
I agree that none of the European powers would want to put their oar in the water, with the possible exception of "moral support" in this scenario. This might change if one side or the other is seen as a big time loser, but not likely. However this is a time when the world is being carved up with formerly blank spaces on the map being colored in the shade of one or another of the imperial powers, or even wanna-bes. While messing about in the Western Hemisphere (other than what France has gotten itself in to in Mexico) is unlikely at this point (not wishing to piss off the USA) there were parts of the world where areas of influence were weak, overlapped, or were non-existent. With the UK (and the RN) stretched overly thin and focused in North America, it is possible some powers might want to nip off a bit here and there where British control is not firmly established.

Just a thought...
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Undoubtedly, which is part of my contention that

I agree that none of the European powers would want to put their oar in the water, with the possible exception of "moral support" in this scenario. This might change if one side or the other is seen as a big time loser, but not likely. However this is a time when the world is being carved up with formerly blank spaces on the map being colored in the shade of one or another of the imperial powers, or even wanna-bes. While messing about in the Western Hemisphere (other than what France has gotten itself in to in Mexico) is unlikely at this point (not wishing to piss off the USA) there were parts of the world where areas of influence were weak, overlapped, or were non-existent. With the UK (and the RN) stretched overly thin and focused in North America, it is possible some powers might want to nip off a bit here and there where British control is not firmly established.

Just a thought...

Undoubtedly, which is part of my contention that what happens in Europe and the Med is always going to be more important to the European powers in the Eighteenth, Nineteenth, and Twentieth centuries than anything in the Western Hemisphere.

As is, more or less, born out by history, despite the fevered imaginings of various and sundry.

The empires existed - on the peripheries - for the benefit of the European metropoles - in the center; as, for example, undoubted hundreds of thousands of colonials who got plowed under found out in 1914-18 and again in 1939-45.

In the 1860s, the British, French, Spanish, Italians, Austrians, and Turks all had conflicting ambitions in the Med; the Russians, Austrians, Turks, and (by extension) the British had conflicting ambitions in the Balkans/Aegean/Black Sea littoral; the Russians, Prussians, and Austrians all had conflicting ambitions in Central and Eastern Europe; the Prussians and Russians had conflicting ambitions in the Baltic; and the French and (eventually) the Germans had conflicting ambitions in northwestern Europe.

The Ottomans were the obvious target in Europe proper, and their various proxies and client states in North Africa came next; sub-saharan Africa (west, central, east, and south) was wide open, and the southeastern peripheries of the Ottoman Empire (Arabia and Persia) were pretty wide open to the great powers as well, if one or more chose to exercise themselves. Central Asia and Persia were theaters in the Great Game between the British and Russians, and the French maintained a presence in the Indian Ocean, if not much in India itself. Likewise, southeast Asia was open to the British and the French, and China was basically prostrate.

And, bizarrely enough, both the French (in Mexico) and the Spanish (in Hispaniola and the southeast Pacific) had ambitions in the Western Hemisphere.

It's quite the potential stew of alliances, de jure and de facto - and, of course, as the events of 1914-18 showed, powers that were allies in peacetime might take an entirely different tack in wartime.

Again, the above speaks to how unrealistic an Anglo-American war in the 1860s would have been, but if there was any British statesman likely to blunder into one, Palmerston is the man.;)

Thanks for reading, and the comment. Anything in particular recently you have enjoyed?

Best,
 
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Just caught up; lovely stuff!


Yep ... and "mild" is not the word, either.;)

The element that I found particularly illuminating is that was posited by a critic who has a) actually written about BROS elsewhere than here; and b) came back to visit specifically to question most of it.

Say what you like otherwise, but I don't think I've ignored the realities of weather in BROS.

Thanks for reading and the comment; anything in particular you have enjoyed?

Best,

Can we get a link to where said critic posted? I'm always fascinated to see our threads mentioned elsewhere
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Thank you for the kind words

Just caught up; lovely stuff!




Can we get a link to where said critic posted? I'm always fascinated to see our threads mentioned elsewhere

Thanks for the kind words; not knowing the board protocols regarding links, especially given some history of the individuals concerned, I will not link to it.

Anything in particular you have appreciated about BROS?

Thanks
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Could you PM us it?
I'm pretty sure I know who it is. It's 67th Tigers, who got banned from here in the past.
Search for "Timeline Review: Burnished Rows of Steel", or read below.


I've previously reserved these critical reviews for published AH books on the Trent Affair, like Harry Harrison's Stars and Stripes Forever. However, here I will engage in criticism of an AH "timeline" created by an American PhD student, Ty Smith. This is an abridged version as I had 2,000 words of criticism of the mistakes made in his Battle of Rouses Point alone! I will these stop myself at about a paragraph (maybe two) each for most points.

Burnished Rows of Steel is a timeline based upon a war arising from the Trent Affair. It is an Ameriwank/ Britscrew is evidenced by it's author rather egregiously declaring the British would need more than 13 million troops in Canada to successfully defend it (post 323). No guessing which way the war in Canada will go in this timeline is there?

The general technique being applied is that the Americans are allowed to make sudden leaps in technology/ logistics etc., whereas for the British the most mundane tasks, like sailing across the Atlantic become Herculean tasks. In some ways this is a rerun of the technique Harry Harrison used in his Stars and Stripes series, and the TL shares much in common with it.

Summary Timeline

Oct '61 - The St. Albans Raid occurs, only three years (to the day) too early.
Nov '61 - Trent Affair, made worse by the attack on Rinaldo
Dec ' 61 - Vermont troops ambush and massacre British troops around the Vermont border
Jan '62 - For no reason the British start acting like the US climbed down
Feb '62 - Ft Donelson falls as per OTL
Apr '62 - The British attempt to occupy Ft Montgomery and fail, the rest of the forces move to Portland and are still besieging it 5 months later
May '62 - Americans conquer most of Canada
upto Sep '62 - not a lot changes

1. Where is the Border?

TS states the British were invading Vermont when they crossed a bridge over the Coaticook River. In fact the border is technically about 50 m south of the bridge, being a simple straight line on a map. However if the train didn't stop at the station one can see the problem. However, as if they knew by telepathy the Vermont Militia ambush the train, kill and wound 156 regulars and militia and capture the rest. What a massive overreaction.

The Vermont Militia are puzzling. OTL the entire militia along with new recruits were mustered into the 1st Vermont Infantry in 1861, which had since been discharged and the vast majority of them reenlisted leaving about 150 militiamen in the whole state. This showed in August '62 when an attempt to call out the militia failed to produce more than half a battalion. It's doubtful the Vermont Militia would have won a firefight about several hundred regulars. To preserve any sense of realism one could assume that the Vermont government refused to hand over the 1st Vermont Cavalry to the Federal government citing the need to guard the border.

2. Norfolk?

TS fails to understand that OTL Norfolk was never assaulted. Huger abandoned it with all his stores, guns etc. when McClellan succeeded in gaining Yorktown. The assault by Burnside is against a massively superior force (outnumbering him more than 2:1) with heavy artillery covering all the possible landing beaches. It is simply impossible.

3. HMG Declares War when?

Using a misinterpretation of the declaration of war against Russia in 1854 TS argues that the British would spend months naval gazing. TS has in fact made the Trent Affair worse by having the USS San Jacinto then attack HMS Rinaldo (naturally the American wins, despite being outgunned 9 guns to 6 and being a slower ship) .

In fact HMG declared war against Russia the first working day after news their ultimatum was rejected. Following the Crimean schedule the news of Britains declaration of war should reach America in mid-January. This is pretty standard throughout the whole TL - slowing down the British, leading us onto:

4. Where is the British Army?

In the OTL troop movements to America were cancelled when news reached the UK of Americas climbdown. TS has then cancelling troop movements even with them planning to declare war at least opportune time for then (i.e. after the Americans get all their armies in place but before the St. Lawrence thaws).

5. Seniority? Regimental Names?

A petty point, but TS keeps putting senior officers under their juniors. He also doesn't understand the rank structure in the British Army, or why the 67th has a second Lt-Col.

TS also doesn't know the the county names of regiments were never used. The 16th did not refer to themselves as the "Bedfords" but rather "The Old Bucks", a name acquired in 1782 stressing their seniority.

6. Magic Trains at Rouses Point

There is no railroad connecting Plattsburgh and Rouses Point OTL. The Hudson and Delaware Railroad runs north from Plattsburgh and the closest it comes to Rouses Point is where it crosses the Ogdensburg and Lake Champlain RR 12 miles west of Rouses Point. Ergo the closest one could get to the action via rail is 12 miles away - the best part of a days march. Hooker's Division should have been walking further.

On this subject, the capacity of a boxcar is 40 men or 8 horses. A large train could carry a regiment of infantry, a battery of guns or a squadron of cavalry. TS has whole brigades getting on single trains, with the entraining and detraining taking no time at all. They are apparently TARDIS like, bigger on the inside and able to teleport, if not time travel.

7. HMS Terror

TS seems to think the Terror needs towing. This would be news to her crew who sailed her to Bermuda without tow in 1860, and have been cruising along the American coast for over a year. It would also be news to the crew of USS Dacotah who nearly opened fire on her off St. Thomas in late '61.

8. USS Mississippi

USS Mississippi, an old side-wheeler with a 6 gun broadside meets the faster and more modern HMS Racoon, with an 11 gun broadside (the heavy smoothbores may have been partially replaced with rifled guns). Naturally, as the American is only outgunned ca. 2 to 1 she rapidly finishes off the Racoon. The battleship Edgar and the ironclad Terror then proceed to smash Mississippi. However Mississippi's sacrifice allows two fast merchant steamers to run into Delaware Bay, and obviously a full battleship and an ironclad designed to work in the littoral don't enter despite there not being anything to stop them.

9. Portland

Banks has three divisions concentrated (Richardson's Sedgwick's and what was historically Butler's) to defend Maine. The British are going to attack by taking all their remaining defensive forces from Canada and Nova Scotia and land by ship, regardless of just how difficult getting the troops there was, the fact that the St. Lawrence is still frozen, and that it will leave the Province of Canada undefended.

The navy of course, despite having ironclads and full battleships refuse to challenge two weak, antique forts with an insignificant armament. The RN of course are famous for refusing to engage the enemy when they have a major advantage, it's far too unsporting. The landing force is of course stopped in their tracks by half a Union division and apparently they settle into a siege. Despite having total seapower domination, a massive manpower advantage because they've been boosted to 3 TS pattern British divisions (i.e. about 5 OTL ones) and assumidly surrounding the place the plucky Americans are still holding out in September where TS has currently got to.

10. Upper Canada

The Union have formed a two Corps army under Grant to invade Canada by gutting other armies. One Corps is McCook's with half of Buell's Army, and another is under Sherman with half of Grant's Army. Lets cut a long story short, Grant has a magic wand and they occupy Upper Canada in July. Lets not worry that OTL Williams started preparing Toronto as a "Sebastapol" on 2nd December '61. Lets not even consider that with 8 months preparation the British might have an effective defence at Toronto.

Part of the problem here might by TS refusing to acknowledge that the Canadian militia may expand during threat of war. He also refused to acknowledge the existence of Williams embodying nearly 50,000 militia in late December '61. Ergo ITTL there are simply no defenders to man those works because they're all busy besieging Portland.

11. Torpedoes?

Of course, the Americans invent the spar torpedo several years early, and proceed to blow up a British battleship with them. Obviously that's how invention works, just because these were invented in another country, used against the Union and it took them two years to backengineer them is no bar to the Union inventing and fielding torpedo boats on a few weeks notice.

12. More ironclads!

In Summer of '62 "more ironclads" are Commissioning in US ports. Lets not worry that OTL with a major push and with access to more resources (like British machine parts and iron) in the summer of '62 the US Commissioned precisely one ironclad, the flawed New Ironsides (can maybe make an appearance in Sept'62, where the story has advanced too). So where are these new ironclads coming from?

13. Vive la Quebec!?

At some point Quebec is conquered and the much hated (by the Quebecois) Patriotes set up as a government. I seem to have missed to conquest, but then all the British defenders are busy besieging Portland. It seems that perhaps only western Quebec is occupied as TS is currently debating how to stage the British defeat battle of Berthierville.

Summary

It's pretty bad. How bad? It's approaching the level of realism of Harry Harrison's Stars of Stripes forever but without getting names wrong. Most of the minor details are wrong of course.

It is better than Tsouas's work? Hard to say, but both suffer similar faults. It is certainly much worse than Conroy's 1862.

Review Rankings

Writing: 5/10 - well written in parts but confusing to track events. Poorly written in other parts. Characters are unbelievable and the British read like an enemy in a Tom Clancy novel - nothing more than targets.

Reserach: 2/10 - whilst some research has been done the author does not understand the data he has compiled. He has not used most of the available resources on this matter such as Kenneth Bourne's "Great Britain and the Balance of Power in North America), Warren's "Fountain of Discontent" Ferris' "The Trent Affair" or any of the other standard works on this topic. He does not understand the British military system in the slightest, for example not even knowing the rank of a brigade commander in the UK system, or how many brigades constitute a division (two).

Realism: 1/10 - at no time did I ever consider the events realistic. Like a HH book the Americans are super-smart, and invent new gadgets with ease. American militiamen can easily defeat superior numbers of better armed British regulars. American ships easily smash RN ships that are faster, better protected and much more heavily armed. The RN refuses to do what they historically planned to do, and the army refuses to attack, unless the Americans are heavily entrenched first. Very sporting.

Enjoyment: some - difficult to rate as this is clearly aimed at an American audience who appear to be insecure in their place in a changing world. To them it seems very enjoyable. To anyone that knows the subject the mistakes grate.

Overall - of some entertainment value, but poorly researched and unrealistic.
 
I am very impressed. The juxtaposition between references and the "story" is excellent and provides a wonderful context.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
In case anyone is wondering, the author of BROS

In case anyone is wondering, the author of BROS is NOT Ty Smith, the PHD candidate, or, for that matter, Ty Smith, the retired army officer and historian of the U.S. west. Or anyone else named Ty Smith, for that matter. The reviewer Saphroneth posted and linked to is incorrect in a lot of other areas, but trying to identify the author is the most egregiously incorrect element.

Best,
 
Elements I enjoy: the little opening touches (the lyrics to music as a framing device), and just the way this has all unfolded. I'm not normally an ACW buff, but this is a good, detailed exploration of an Anglo-American War. It definitely punctures the old "19th Century Britain is unstoppable" image.

And yeah, of course it's old 67th Tigers. He got banned a while back--notorious for his very, very pro-UK bias (despite being Belgian, I believe).
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Thank you for the comment

I am very impressed. The juxtaposition between references and the "story" is excellent and provides a wonderful context.


Thank you for the comment; anything in particular you have found interesting or entertaining?

Best,
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Didn't 67th Tigers supposedly have a firm belief in England Uber Alles? Also dear god that review stinks of smugness.
He and TFSmith have, as I understand it, A History.

He's got sources for a great deal of what he brings up, though - for example, the British Regulars in the Crimean War were capable of aimed hits on target at 500 yards and used that capability regularly, while the cancellation of OTL planned reinforcements in TTL is baffling since it only happened OTL after the climb-down.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Thanks for the kind words

Elements I enjoy: the little opening touches (the lyrics to music as a framing device), and just the way this has all unfolded. I'm not normally an ACW buff, but this is a good, detailed exploration of an Anglo-American War. It definitely punctures the old "19th Century Britain is unstoppable" image.

Thanks for the kind words. One thing that I have tried to do is make clear an Anglo-American war in the 1860s would not be a walkover for any combatant, and would not turn on anything other combat at close range; no magic bullets between peer competitors, as was demonstrated in 1854-56 and 1861-65. And 1880-81, for that matter.

And I'm glad to hear you appreciate the music and poetry; there is a wealth of such to draw on, and it certainly helps set the tone...something that is overlooked, at times, is how literate an era it was, and music - both popular and classical, which was often the same - was a reflection of that.

Best,
 
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