BURNISHED ROWS OF STEEL: A History of the Great War (Foreward)

[FickleCrossroad]

Finally caught up, very very good TL.

Great to finally see a decent TL with my fellow Lancaster Countian at the head of the AotP!

 

[TFSmith121]

Many thanks; appreciate the read and the post. Anything in particular you enjoyed or thought was done well, or poorly? Beyond John Reynolds, of course.

I'm trying to pull together the next chapter: July, 1863. Kind of an important month...

Best,

 

[FickleCrossroad]

Many thanks; appreciate the read and the post. Anything in particular you enjoyed or thought was done well, or poorly? Beyond John Reynolds, of course.

I'm trying to pull together the next chapter: July, 1863. Kind of an important month...

Best,

Just overall well fleshed out. Logistics was the problem. Britain alone of the European powers has to have an eye and a half on the continent despite all their wealth and power, particularly with the scenario you painted. One thing I've been wondering is with the added pressure on the Union, why not more added procurement of Spencers? Particularly with the static warfare Little Mac had for over a year, wouldn't the added advantage of rate of fire win out? I'm not expecting wholesale adoption, but maybe 50-100% more than OTL.

Yeah, I'm a Reynolds fan. I actually grew up 1/4mi south from where the Pennsylvania Long Rifle was born, and I'm not just a Lancaster County guy, I have Amish roots. (Martin Meylin's gunsmith still stands to this day.) The longer he survives, the better!

 

[altwere]

Any Idea about timing for an update?

 

[TFSmith121]

Just overall well fleshed out. Logistics was the problem. Britain alone of the European powers has to have an eye and a half on the continent despite all their wealth and power, particularly with the scenario you painted. One thing I've been wondering is with the added pressure on the Union, why not more added procurement of Spencers? Particularly with the static warfare Little Mac had for over a year, wouldn't the added advantage of rate of fire win out? I'm not expecting wholesale adoption, but maybe 50-100% more than OTL. Yeah, I'm a Reynolds fan. I actually grew up 1/4mi south from where the Pennsylvania Long Rifle was born, and I'm not just a Lancaster County guy, I have Amish roots. (Martin Meylin's gunsmith still stands to this day.) The longer he survives, the better!

Many thanks; basically, because I have tried to avoid what seems ahistorical in BROS, pretty much the Sharps and Spencer production rates are historical. No Gatlings, either.

Best,

 

[FickleCrossroad]

Many thanks; basically, because I have tried to avoid what seems ahistorical in BROS, pretty much the Sharps and Spencer production rates are historical. No Gatlings, either.

Best,

But there is a very obvious butterfly here. Increased pressure on the Union requires greater R&D. It would make perfect sense for the Union to trade license rights to Prussia. Sharps and Spencer for Needle Gun? A net loss for the Union, but if Prussia implemented the box magazine, that would be one hell of a third order butterfly. You're doing very well trying to keep within the confines of the plausible, but please do remember such a POD opens massive early butterflies, not just the French being bought out and Union staff being better in Europe. You put Lincoln in a pressure cooker, remember that. He will be more open to experiments than you have since let on.

 

[TFSmith121]

Any Idea about timing for an update?

Working toward this weekend for Part I of Chapter 19:

Chapter 19 – A Stillness on the Aransas
Part 1 – … our liberty, our progress, and our civilization
i. …The Contrabands
ii. Glory Road

Part 2 will follow, to the Battle of Wolf River and points south...

Thanks for reading, and the comment; it is appreciated.

Best,

 

[sloreck]

Given that the Gatling Gun was patented in 1862, there is no reason to think that in BROS you'll see more production and use. Fighting a two front war against the UK as one opponent will push the Union to be more willing to to accept weapons like the Gatling (and others like the Henry rifle, etc) that will increase firepower in spite of some of the ordnance establishment. Especially in static warfare of Mac, the siege of Portland the Gatling can be very effective. Another use is on riverine craft. IMHO the big advantage the Henry, Spencer, Sharps and similar give the Union in addition to the rate of firepower is the ability to load and fire on the move, to begin with open order tactics. I agree with trying to stay as close to OTL as possible, no ASBs, but utilizing the military tech of the period that was available but not used is a reasonable thing to do given the PODs.

 

[Driftless]

...snip...IMHO the big advantage the Henry, Spencer, Sharps and similar give the Union in addition to the rate of firepower is the ability to load and fire on the move, to begin with open order tactics. I agree with trying to stay as close to OTL as possible, no ASBs, but utilizing the military tech of the period that was available but not used is a reasonable thing to do given the PODs.

Were there any moderate sized skirmishes fought using open order tactics? I don't think that was done with any of the larger battles/campaigns, or am I remembering poorly?

That open order idea should have been possible OTL in the great spaces of the western theater, and probably in Canada and the Pacific NW as well, in this universe. All that man portable firepower does lead away from the volley fire by massed ranks.

 

[FickleCrossroad]

Were there any moderate sized skirmishes fought using open order tactics? I don't think that was done with any of the larger battles/campaigns, or am I remembering poorly?

That open order idea should have been possible OTL in the great spaces of the western theater, and probably in Canada and the Pacific NW as well, in this universe. All that man portable firepower does lead away from the volley fire by massed ranks.

Open order was only possible without cavalry until rate of fire increased. The Spencer allows open order. As does the Sharps, but barely. Muzzleloaders? A company of horse would cause too much disorder.

 

[Driftless]

Open order was only possible without cavalry until rate of fire increased. The Spencer allows open order. As does the Sharps, but barely. Muzzleloaders? A company of horse would cause too much disorder.

What's the end result of a company of Union Cavalry/Dragoons with Spencer's or Henry's against a similar size Confederate Cavalry unit? Would they go at each other sabre to sabre, or might the Union soldiers dismount and try to out-gun the Confederates? Or is that just too hypothetical for any useful comparisson

 

[galveston bay]

What's the end result of a company of Union Cavalry/Dragoons with Spencer's or Henry's against a similar size Confederate Cavalry unit? Would they go at each other sabre to sabre, or might the Union soldiers dismount and try to out-gun the Confederates? Or is that just too hypothetical for any useful comparisson

Let the Battle of Yellow Tavern by your guide on that one

 

[naraht]

Additional "Battle types" in this war relative to ours?

In OTL the types of battles varied greatly, with the battles in New Mexico calling for very different tactics and equipment than the ones in Tennessee or Virginia, I'm wondering what types of battles that would exist iTTL and not ours. I *think* there was some lacustrine (on the Great Lakes) fighting early in the war and some of the fighting in Maine dealt with repelling sea based troops which wasn't done iOTL. Any other additional "types" spring to mind?

Also, iOTL, which "front" was longer, the USA-CSA (Civil War) or the German-Russian (WWI)?

 

[Xenophonte]

Additional "Battle types" in this war relative to ours?

In OTL the types of battles varied greatly, with the battles in New Mexico calling for very different tactics and equipment than the ones in Tennessee or Virginia, I'm wondering what types of battles that would exist iTTL and not ours. I *think* there was some lacustrine (on the Great Lakes) fighting early in the war and some of the fighting in Maine dealt with repelling sea based troops which wasn't done iOTL. Any other additional "types" spring to mind?

Also, iOTL, which "front" was longer, the USA-CSA (Civil War) or the German-Russian (WWI)?

An urban battle (house by house fight) not only an siege,perhaps?

 

[TFSmith121]

Then I encourage you to use him.

Will do - may end up being a flashback from a later date...

Best,

 

[TFSmith121]

Given that the Gatling Gun was patented in 1862, there is no reason to think that in BROS you'll see more production and use. Fighting a two front war against the UK as one opponent will push the Union to be more willing to to accept weapons like the Gatling (and others like the Henry rifle, etc) that will increase firepower in spite of some of the ordnance establishment. Especially in static warfare of Mac, the siege of Portland the Gatling can be very effective. Another use is on riverine craft. IMHO the big advantage the Henry, Spencer, Sharps and similar give the Union in addition to the rate of firepower is the ability to load and fire on the move, to begin with open order tactics. I agree with trying to stay as close to OTL as possible, no ASBs, but utilizing the military tech of the period that was available but not used is a reasonable thing to do given the PODs.

Did have the Agar show up in the fighting on the Penobscot in 1862; that seemed reasonable, given the time frame and Butler's procurement of such historically, and his assignment in BROS...

It is only Juune, 1863 so far in BROS; more "new technology" will show up....

As always, thanks for reading and posting; comments are appreciated.

Best,

 

[TFSmith121]

Were there any moderate sized skirmishes fought using open order tactics? I don't think that was done with any of the larger battles/campaigns, or am I remembering poorly?

That open order idea should have been possible OTL in the great spaces of the western theater, and probably in Canada and the Pacific NW as well, in this universe. All that man portable firepower does lead away from the volley fire by massed ranks.

Cavalry and mounted infantry tended to fight in what we'd see as open order once dismounted; sharpshooters and skirmishes, as well.

Any battle where the terrain and/or flora was such as to prevent more conventional tactics: Chancellorsville, the Wilderness, and Spotsylvania were all pretty much these sorts of actions, for obvious reasons - the first day of Shiloh had a lot of open order fighting as well because of the topography.

In BROS, fair amount of the fighting in Maine, especially around Portland away from the beaches and before the entrenchments dominated, and on the Penobscot, would have been so, I expect.

Best,

 

[TFSmith121]

Open order was only possible without cavalry until rate of fire increased. The Spencer allows open order. As does the Sharps, but barely. Muzzleloaders? A company of horse would cause too much disorder.

True enough, and again, in BROS, it's only the end of the 2nd quarter of 1863; the Sharps has shown up, but the Spencer is only "now" coming into regimental service, as it did historically.

Best,

 

[TFSmith121]

What's the end result of a company of Union Cavalry/Dragoons with Spencer's or Henry's against a similar size Confederate Cavalry unit? Would they go at each other sabre to sabre, or might the Union soldiers dismount and try to out-gun the Confederates? Or is that just too hypothetical for any useful comparisson

At Gettysburg in the summer of 1863, Custer's and Buford's cavalry fought largely as dragoons, while at Turner's Gap, Wilder's mounted infantry did the exact same thing.

Arme Blanche daydreams aside, mounted mobility and dismounted combat was pretty much the only way forward for cavalry once breechloading small arms were in widespread service.

Best,

 

[Driftless]

At Gettysburg in the summer of 1863, Custer's and Bufod's cavalry fought largely as dragoons, while at Turner's Gap, Wilder's mounted infantry did the exact same thing.

Arme Blanche daydreams aside, mounted mobility and dismounted combat was pretty much the only way forward for cavalry one breechloading small arms were in widespread service.

Best,

And Buford has a key role in this universe too. I don't recall that we've heard from Custer & Wilder - so far....