Bulgaria on the side of the Entente in WW1 and it's consequences

[Kurd Gossemer]

The idea is simple: How would the Entente fare with Bulgaria fighting alongside it? I imagine the war would've ended sooner given they would've been in a prime position to not only invade the Ottoman capital and help support Serbia against Austria but also allow for transient of Russian shipping and supplies to arrive towards the Russians.

The Pod here is that there's no Second Balkan War with Bulgaria fighting all it's neighbors, not only that but Russia manages to convinces Serbia to go for Yugoslavia by dismembering the Slavic parts of the Austro-Hungarian empire instead of having territorial ambitious south as well as Greece getting support for it's Megali idea of annexing the coastal area of Anatolia with Greeks in it.

Of course there would be post WW1 tensions over fighting for territory, again, but that's for another thread.

 

[naraic]

Bulgaria on the Entente side is a 1916-1917 end for the war.

Bulgaria and Serbia on the same side probably brings the Greeks into the war at a much earlier point too to increase the pressure on the Ottomans. With the Ottomans engaged with Bulgaria it frees up a lot Anglo French forces from having to attack Gallipoli and those forces will probably be positioned on the Western front to increase pressure against Germany.

A lot of Ottoman arms industry was in the capital. Once it falls the Ottomans will either drop out of the war or Britain and Russia can half their forces facing the Ottomans and still get the same level of success.

 

[Belisarius II]

Bulgaria joining the Allies in October 1915 would open up huge possibilities. The Bulgarians could threaten Istanbul or move to cutoff the Turkish army at Gallipoli. That would bring Greece into the war and accelerate the entry of Romania into the Allied camp. With Serbia still fighting the CP at the same time as the Russians launching the Brusilov Offensive, and Romania coming in during June AH might collapse, leaving Germany to fight on alone. Under those circumstances could Germany endure the Turnup Winter?

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

Bulgaria on the Entente side is a 1916-1917 end for the war.

Bulgaria and Serbia on the same side probably brings the Greeks into the war at a much earlier point too to increase the pressure on the Ottomans. With the Ottomans engaged with Bulgaria it frees up a lot Anglo French forces from having to attack Gallipoli and those forces will probably be positioned on the Western front to increase pressure against Germany.

A lot of Ottoman arms industry was in the capital. Once it falls the Ottomans will either drop out of the war or Britain and Russia can half their forces facing the Ottomans and still get the same level of success.

So a war that ends up earlier in this case. I imagine the Bulgarians and Greeks slice Anatolia between them, with Greece getting the coastal areas and Bulgaria gaining the Capital, the Bosporus and parts of upper Anatolia in the Black Sea, Russian Empire(if the revolution doesn't happen) will get Parts of Anatolia too alongside Armenia bits(Armenian Genocide would've started already but it could be stopped hopefully).

Germany meanwhile gets territorial losses but since there's no independent Poland here, it most likely loses Silesia and gets East Prussia "thinned out" to the Russian Empire as well as losing Konigsberg, Austria loses it's Slavic provinces to Serbia and Hungary either gets off with normal territory or is forced to give Transylvania to Romania(who would've jumped at the chance to get it), Albania probably doesn't go to Italy either.

Question is, what would happen with the Arab parts of the Ottoman empire? Does the British French plan still goes trough or is something else done? Especially because they wouldn't need to be wary of a neutered Turkey

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

Bulgaria joining the Allies in October 1915 would open up huge possibilities. The Bulgarians could threaten Istanbul or move to cutoff the Turkish army at Gallipoli. That would bring Greece into the war and accelerate the entry of Romania into the Allied camp. With Serbia still fighting the CP at the same time as the Russians launching the Brusilov Offensive, and Romania coming in during June AH might collapse, leaving Germany to fight on alone. Under those circumstances could Germany endure the Turnup Winter?

We would probably see a end to the war here and there, especially if Germany is fighting alone, although I imagine that the territorial loses would've still been great.

 

[Pelranius]

The idea is simple: How would the Entente fare with Bulgaria fighting alongside it? I imagine the war would've ended sooner given they would've been in a prime position to not only invade the Ottoman capital and help support Serbia against Austria but also allow for transient of Russian shipping and supplies to arrive towards the Russians.

The Pod here is that there's no Second Balkan War with Bulgaria fighting all it's neighbors, not only that but Russia manages to convinces Serbia to go for Yugoslavia by dismembering the Slavic parts of the Austro-Hungarian empire instead of having territorial ambitious south as well as Greece getting support for it's Megali idea of annexing the coastal area of Anatolia with Greeks in it.

Of course there would be post WW1 tensions over fighting for territory, again, but that's for another thread.

Without a Second Balkan War, the Ottomans would probably not jump in at all (or even still keep the Black Sea open).

 

[CaptainCalvert]

I can't easily see either Bulgaria or Greece being allowed Constantinople due to its strategic localtion. More likely it would end up run under some kind of international mandate.
Bringing in Bulgaria would increase the chances of Gallipoli being a success and would enhance Winston's reputation. The downside there is that he might be harder to dissuade from his grand plans in WW2. Pity the CIGS!

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

I can't easily see either Bulgaria or Greece being allowed Constantinople due to its strategic localtion. More likely it would end up run under some kind of international mandate.
Bringing in Bulgaria would increase the chances of Gallipoli being a success and would enhance Winston's reputation. The downside there is that he might be harder to dissuade from his grand plans in WW2. Pity the CIGS!

Thing is, Bulgaria absolutely had the desire to capture it and with Greece somewhat placated by getting Coastal Anatolia, the Bulgarians would demand having it, especially since they would be the most important in fighting off the Ottoman army as well as advancing through the Bosphorus, not only that Russia would be supporting them and France supporting Russia because they want them on their side in case the Germans get revanchist, not only that Bulgaria would probably allow military bases and free trade through it in order to placate the great powers

 

[Wendell]

Greece has no land border with any Central Power if Bulgaria backs the Entente. Why bother joining the war at all?

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

Greece has no land border with any Central Power if Bulgaria backs the Entente. Why bother joining the war at all?

If they could be promised coastal Anatolia that had Greeks in them it would be too good to resist especially with the Megali idea around and the fact Greece was awarded it after ww1... Only to lose it when the Turkish War of Independence came, with Bulgaria and Russian Empire not collapsing, the 3 can partition Anatolia between them and keep it theirs.

 

[Belisarius II]

Greece has no land border with any Central Power if Bulgaria backs the Entente. Why bother joining the war at all?

No, but they had a sea border, and a large ethnic Greek population living in Anatolia. The also have their eyes on Aegean Islands.

 

[Garrison]

Depending when this happens it would have huge consequences for Gallipoli and Salonika, saving a huge number of Entente soldiers and potentially accelerating the war on the Western Front, especially if the Germans have to send large numbers of troops to the south.

 

[naraic]

Question is, what would happen with the Arab parts of the Ottoman empire? Does the British French plan still goes trough or is something else done? Especially because they wouldn't need to be wary of a neutered Turkey

It depends.

I suspect that the Entente powers would allow the Ottomans an easy exit in exchange for getting out of the war quickly.

That said I don't think the Ottomans would be able to hold the Arab parts of the empire if they have already lost Constantonople.

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

It depends.

I suspect that the Entente powers would allow the Ottomans an easy exit in exchange for getting out of the war quickly.

That said I don't think the Ottomans would be able to hold the Arab parts of the empire if they have already lost Constantonople.

By that point they would've realized they've already lost and given the circumstances of a Russian Empire still kicking, the Austrians having been beaten and the Germans really feeling the pressure, they'll probably have to exist in a rump interior form in Anatolia since the 3 of the Entente will want coastal Anatolia.

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

Depending when this happens it would have huge consequences for Gallipoli and Salonika, saving a huge number of Entente soldiers and potentially accelerating the war on the Western Front, especially if the Germans have to send large numbers of troops to the south.

Not only that but it will free up some Russian troops that were in the Caucasus in order to better help against the Germans and Austrians and while most of the Bulgarian troops would've been in Constantinople, there would be a few alongside Greek reinforcements that could help push the Austrians back, especially if Romania and Italy joins in, which would force Germany to split it's forces to prevent total Austrian collapse and relieve pressure on both the Eastern and Western front, coupled that with the harsh food crisis we could possibly see Germany giving up earlier

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

No, but they had a sea border, and a large ethnic Greek population living in Anatolia. The also have their eyes on Aegean Islands.

This. They would have every reason to continue on with the Megali idea and try and dismantle the Ottoman empire for the ethnic Greek parts. This would have post WW1 consequences of them and Bulgaria once again fighting against over Macedonia as well as who gets Anatolia.

 

[kham_coc]

If there is no second Balkan war, Serbia should be a lot less bellicose.

 

[Wendell]

If they could be promised coastal Anatolia that had Greeks in them it would be too good to resist especially with the Megali idea around and the fact Greece was awarded it after ww1... Only to lose it when the Turkish War of Independence came, with Bulgaria and Russian Empire not collapsing, the 3 can partition Anatolia between them and keep it theirs.

Greece lacks the ability to sustain that presence even more than in OTL.

 

[Augenis]

The idea is simple: How would the Entente fare with Bulgaria fighting alongside it? I imagine the war would've ended sooner given they would've been in a prime position to not only invade the Ottoman capital and help support Serbia against Austria but also allow for transient of Russian shipping and supplies to arrive towards the Russians.

The Pod here is that there's no Second Balkan War with Bulgaria fighting all it's neighbors, not only that but Russia manages to convinces Serbia to go for Yugoslavia by dismembering the Slavic parts of the Austro-Hungarian empire instead of having territorial ambitious south as well as Greece getting support for it's Megali idea of annexing the coastal area of Anatolia with Greeks in it.

Of course there would be post WW1 tensions over fighting for territory, again, but that's for another thread.

I'll go against the grain and argue that the outcome, while still an Entente victory, wouldn't be that dramatic.

• Bulgaria's army, while large in percentage of its population, was kind of weak. It's certainly in better shape if we avoid the second Balkan War (since after it Bulgaria was essentially on the verge of bankruptcy) but all by itself it isn't going to be breaking into Anatolia.
• Bulgaria joining the Entente means Romania may likely stay out. All the forces the CP historically dedicated to the Romania campaign can be diverted to the Balkans, or be used in the Western/Eastern fronts.
• Even before Bulgaria's entrance to the war, Germany and A-H were breaking into Serbian lines and counting that + the 1915 typhus epidemic means Serbia wasn't going to hold until 1916 anyway, Bulgaria just sealed the deal and made Serbian retreat more difficult.
• While this does mean a stronger Serb force would retreat to Thessaloniki, Bulgaria (assuming it joins ENT the same time as it joined CP historically) would immediately be pressed from both sides and its strategic advantage would be nullified. Bulgaria would fold to a German-AH assault in 1915 rather easily.

And, of course, Serbian and Bulgarian (and Greek) forces would struggle to work together, making the Balkan front into less of a united front against pressure from north and south and more a bunch of states during their own thing.

Last thing is that since there isn't any rail connection between Thessaloniki and Bulgaria in 1914, and they are cut off from one another by the Pirin and Rhodopes (you essentially have to go all the way to Belgrade and then turn to Bulgaria to travel there by rail), Entente ability to supply or reinforce Bulgaria is going to be... poor. Essentially, they are on their own there.

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

I'll go against the grain and argue that the outcome, while still an Entente victory, wouldn't be that dramatic.

• Bulgaria's army, while large in percentage of its population, was kind of weak. It's certainly in better shape if we avoid the second Balkan War (since after it Bulgaria was essentially on the verge of bankruptcy) but all by itself it isn't going to be breaking into Anatolia.
• Bulgaria joining the Entente means Romania may likely stay out. All the forces the CP historically dedicated to the Romania campaign can be diverted to the Balkans, or be used in the Western/Eastern fronts.
• Even before Bulgaria's entrance to the war, Germany and A-H were breaking into Serbian lines and counting that + the 1915 typhus epidemic means Serbia wasn't going to hold until 1916 anyway, Bulgaria just sealed the deal and made Serbian retreat more difficult.
• While this does mean a stronger Serb force would retreat to Thessaloniki, Bulgaria (assuming it joins ENT the same time as it joined CP historically) would immediately be pressed from both sides and its strategic advantage would be nullified. Bulgaria would fold to a German-AH assault in 1915 rather easily.

And, of course, Serbian and Bulgarian (and Greek) forces would struggle to work together, making the Balkan front into less of a united front against pressure from north and south and more a bunch of states during their own thing.

Last thing is that since there isn't any rail connection between Thessaloniki and Bulgaria in 1914, and they are cut off from one another by the Pirin and Rhodopes (you essentially have to go all the way to Belgrade and then turn to Bulgaria to travel there by rail), Entente ability to supply or reinforce Bulgaria is going to be... poor. Essentially, they are on their own there.

Do you think they could take on Constantinople at least? Surely with the support of the Entente navies as well as supporting troops they could take the city? If they do they would have a excellent staging ground against the Ottomans but I'm curious on what you think.