British Hanover at the Beginning of WW1

[Michael B]

(Wikipedia) In 1837, the personal union of the United Kingdom and Hanover ended because William IV's heir in the United Kingdom was female (Queen Victoria). Hanover could be inherited only by male heirs. Thus, Hanover passed to William IV's brother, Ernest Augustus, and remained a kingdom until 1866, when it was annexed by Prussia during the Austro-Prussian war.

If Hanover had remained British due to a different inheritance law then it is reasonable to assume that Prussia would pass on it in 1866. This is because it would not wish to get in a war with the British Empire. In addition Hanover would stay out of the German Customs Union. Thus come 1914 it would not be in the German Empire.

So at the beginning of WW1 there are British troops on the continent. With that threat do the Germans still go for a Schlieffen Plan with a Hanover invasion/troops to guard the border or do they go defensive in the west and devise a Operation Babarossa type plan? Ideas?

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Hanover is indefensible against a united Germany.

 

[Avrorrange]

Would there even be a German Empire to begin with?

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Probably, but Britain may not be at odds with it. Why? Because there will be no naval rivalry as the German Navy will be no more than a Baltic Coastal Defence Force.

 

[water123]

An independent Hannover fundamentally changes the Balance of Power in Europe and probably butterflies Germany at all.

It is a way to theoretically get a Franco-German Alliance.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Not possible with a post1900 PoD

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

An independent Hannover fundamentally changes the Balance of Power in Europe and probably butterflies Germany at all.

It is a way to theoretically get a Franco-German Alliance.

I'd think it more likely there be an Anglo German Alliance though. Also there'd be a much closer relationship between Britain, Denmark and the Netherlands as British Hanover would be the shield against Prussia.

 

[arctic warrior]

This would so much change the timeline since 1837. The First Schleswig War 1848-50 would be different as the Hannover contingent wouldn't be part of the Confederation Corps so a substitute would be needed - if at all possible.
Bismarck may go to London as ambassador instead of Paris! So a different 1864. Then against whom is the new Prussian Army going to be tested?

 

[The Lethargic Lett]

If both Hanover and the United Kingdom had Absolute Cognatic succession laws, then not only would there be a personal union between the United Kingdom and Hanover under Queen Victoria, but (if marriages and births stay the same) there would have eventually been a personal union of Prussia/Germany, Hanover, and the United Kingdom under Wilhelm II starting in 1901.

 

[Deleted member 94680]

If both Hanover and the United Kingdom had Absolute Cognatic succession laws, then not only would there be a personal union between the United Kingdom and Hanover under Queen Victoria, but (if marriages and births stay the same) there would have eventually been a personal union of Prussia/Germany, Hanover, and the United Kingdom under Wilhelm II starting in 1901.

How so?

 

[steelbrok]

Or just have Queen Victoria be King Victor

 

[The Lethargic Lett]

How so?

The eldest daughter of Queen Victoria (and heir under Absolute Cognatic succession) was Victoria, Princess Royal. The younger Victoria was the wife of Emperor Frederick III and mother of Wilhelm II. Both Victorias died in 1901, while Frederick died in 1888. Under German Male Primogeniture, Wilhelm II would have been Emperor of Germany since 1888, and would've then inherited the titles of King of the United Kingdom and Hanover as the younger Victoria's eldest child.

Of course, if the United Kingdom and Hanover had implemented Absolute Cognatic succession, a marriage union by the United Kingdom and Hanover with Prussia would've precipitated a political crisis. Britain wouldn't have risked messing with the balance of power to such an extent, so the marriage of the younger Victoria and Frederick would almost certainly be butterflied away.

 

[Deleted member 94680]

The eldest daughter of Queen Victoria (and heir under Absolute Cognatic succession) was Victoria, Princess Royal.
...
Britain wouldn't have risked messing with the balance of power to such an extent, so the marriage of the younger Victoria and Frederick would almost certainly be butterflied away.

Ah yes, I’d forgotten about the younger Victoria.

Very good point about the butterflying away of the Victoria/Frederick marriage as well. I can’t see it happening either, given the changed line of British succession laid out there.

 

[Pralaya]

Hanover IOTL wasn't really affected by the 1848 revolutions of Germany both IOTL and most likely ITTL as well, the city of Hanover didn't have a large liberal population, neither did the largely rural and agricultural society of this kingdom.
Hanover IOTL tried to stay away from Prussian influence as long as possible, having created its own economic union in spite of the Prussian Zollverein and supporting the Austrians in the Austro-Prussian War. In the end, as we can see, Hanover wasn't able to do so, it simply lacked the power to intervene in the great power politics of Central Europe.
IOTL King Georg V of Hanover was exiled after losing the Battle of Langensalza against the Prussians after which he died far removed from the Kingdom which was integrated into the Prussian Kingdom and therefore the North German Federation.

ITTL, however, with the British Empire as its de facto protector could and likely would make Hanover a major player in Pan-German politics, nd a force to be reckoned with for Prussia which would try to avoid a fight with the most powerful state of the world.

As mentioned before, prior to 1848, I don't think much will change. It also wouldn't change the growing secessionist movement in Holstein and Schleswig and I don't think Denmark wouldn't try to integrate these two duchies into the Danish state which ultimately led to the Second Schleswig War of 1864.
But the Prussian-Austrian War might look different, assuming it still happens with Bismarck or a Bismarck-esque figure still heading Prussia for its decadent king. The UK wasn't pleased with the rapid expansion of Prussia IOTL, and, with one of its de-facto possessions in Germany threatened, might be quite angered. Hanover IOTL intervened on the side of Austria, and it might do so ITTL again. Only that it would make a huge difference with the might of the British Empire on its back.
How it would exactly end is a matter to be debated, but it would certainly change German and European history by a huge degree.

We shouldn't forget Hanover's exclaves in and around Western Prussia and Brunswick, Oldenburg, Bremen and other states and regions near Hanover. How would they behave? Would they try to get under British cover? The UK of this timeline can't be compared to OTL, and it's debatable if the British-Hanoverians wouldn't intervene in the Danish War already.

As a last thing I wanted to add: If it wasn't clear enough by my oversimplified summary of Hanoverian history after King Georg V assumed office in Hanover, the British departure of German politics was a huge boon for the interventionistic Prussians who were on the ascendancy in the German Confederation since its very creation. Much to the disappointment for the Austrians and the German states that wanted to stay independent, such as, well, Hanover and Bavaria.

Would there even be a German Empire to begin with?

This is the main question.
But I'm convinced that with a British Hanover, we've butterflown away the first world war in its OTL form which is why OP's question must be stated differently.

 

[dcontreras]

I'd think it more likely there be an Anglo German Alliance though. Also there'd be a much closer relationship between Britain, Denmark and the Netherlands as British Hanover would be the shield against Prussia.

This was the fantasy of Prince Albert, the Prince Consort who envisioned this when he planned the marriage of the future Frederick III to his eldest daughter Vicky.

 

[isabella]

Or just have Queen Victoria be King Victor

King Alexander not king Victor... most likely name of ATL male Victoria would be Alexander Edward, Duke of Kent...
Victor was never used in the English royal family and with an ATL male Victoria would be never used

 

[sendô]

The eldest daughter of Queen Victoria (and heir under Absolute Cognatic succession) was Victoria, Princess Royal. The younger Victoria was the wife of Emperor Frederick III and mother of Wilhelm II. Both Victorias died in 1901, while Frederick died in 1888. Under German Male Primogeniture, Wilhelm II would have been Emperor of Germany since 1888, and would've then inherited the titles of King of the United Kingdom and Hanover as the younger Victoria's eldest child.

Of course, if the United Kingdom and Hanover had implemented Absolute Cognatic succession, a marriage union by the United Kingdom and Hanover with Prussia would've precipitated a political crisis. Britain wouldn't have risked messing with the balance of power to such an extent, so the marriage of the younger Victoria and Frederick would almost certainly be butterflied away.

Indeed, and it should also be remembered that Parliament ultimately decides de facto who inherits the British Crown, and it's hard to imagine them allowing the King of a more populous (domestically) Germany becoming King of Britain.

Anyway, as many above have stated, ITTL Prussia cannot take Hannover in 1866, and in truth might even find itself opposed by Britain on the continent, who will most likely be more interested in maintaining the status quo in Europe than in OTL. The likely result from this is no German Empire at all, and thus WW1 as we know it butterflied away completely.

In fact the more likely scenario is Louis Napoleon getting too big for his boots as OTL, and making a play to expand France to it's "natural borders" and pushing Britain and Prussia into an alliance.

 

[VVD0D95]

Indeed, and it should also be remembered that Parliament ultimately decides de facto who inherits the British Crown, and it's hard to imagine them allowing the King of a more populous (domestically) Germany becoming King of Britain.

Anyway, as many above have stated, ITTL Prussia cannot take Hannover in 1866, and in truth might even find itself opposed by Britain on the continent, who will most likely be more interested in maintaining the status quo in Europe than in OTL. The likely result from this is no German Empire at all, and thus WW1 as we know it butterflied away completely.

In fact the more likely scenario is Louis Napoleon getting too big for his boots as OTL, and making a play to expand France to it's "natural borders" and pushing Britain and Prussia into an alliance.

I'd definitely read such a timeline, Anglo-Prussian alliance thumping Napoelon again?

 

[Claudius]

I'd definitely read such a timeline, Anglo-Prussian alliance thumping Napoelon again?
[/QUOTE]
So would I. A totally different and potentially much better 20th century.

 

[funnyhat]

King Alexander not king Victor... most likely name of ATL male Victoria would be Alexander Edward, Duke of Kent...
Victor was never used in the English royal family and with an ATL male Victoria would be never used

In that case I think he would be called Edward VII.