British army create a universal tank class

The Panzer IV used leaf spring suspension, I specified a scaled up Panzer III because it had a torsion bar suspension as well as a better power to weight ratio to aim to replicate.

Also, if your only meaningful upgrade will be the gun, then you're really just making a tank destroyer.
Panzer IV was an acceptable tank from the first day of the European War to the last, up gunned and up armoured with relative ease. Not bad for a pre war design.
 
Panzer IV was an acceptable tank from the first day of the European War to the last, up gunned and up armoured with relative ease. Not bad for a pre war design.
Not being bad doesn't make it particularly good either. It was outclassed in pretty much every way by the workhorses of the Allies.

It's a good pre-war design, but by 1942 they should have gotten a new workhorse.
 
Not being bad doesn't make it particularly good either. It was outclassed in pretty much every way by the workhorses of the Allies.

It's a good pre-war design, but by 1942 they should have gotten a new workhorse.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but its long 75cm had greater penetration than the US 76mm or Soviet 85mm. I am not aware of its HE performance in comparison though.
 
Please correct me if I am wrong, but its long 75cm had greater penetration than the US 76mm or Soviet 85mm. I am not aware of its HE performance in comparison though.

Also (a Very Un-German thing), perfect is the mortal enemy of good enough. They can make more Pz IV than keep changing for the next model every year (more Pz on the front and even more important, Spare parts, mechanics that know every trick in the book to keep Pz IV's running etc.
 
Please correct me if I am wrong, but its long 75cm had greater penetration than the US 76mm or Soviet 85mm. I am not aware of its HE performance in comparison though.

You are correct though the Soviet 85 is an AA gun,

Funny thing the better the cannon was at killing enemy armour the less 'boom!' H.E shells had this was reason that us medium velocity 75mm was still around in late 44 the H.E shell was very useful. :)
 
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Please correct me if I am wrong, but its long 75cm had greater penetration than the US 76mm or Soviet 85mm. I am not aware of its HE performance in comparison though.
Only better than the American 76 with the PzGr 40 round, which (to my understanding) was rare to the point of near non-existence. Not sure about the Soviet 85.

Anyways, that's not really what you should be looking at when judging a tank's overall effectiveness anyways, as a truck can also tow around a Pak 40. What else do Panzer IVs and trucks have in common? They're both turned into scrap metal by the American 75 at reasonable ranges. You know what they don't have in common? A truck doesn't price match the 44 ton Panther...

You know what else can lug around a Pak 40? A Stug III, a far more effective and economical vehicle.
 

marathag

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You know what else can lug around a Pak 40? A Stug III, a far more effective and economical vehicle.
Even more economical, the RSO for a true mobile antitank gun.

From Steyr, used a dependable Cletrac drive, with spring suspension, so cheaper than the more complex Panzer Mk.III hull
 
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Yeah, though I also specified more effective :p
That is one ugly machine...

I was just noting that the PZ IV had a very competitive long 75 that helped keep it in the game against most opponent tanks and armor. It wasn't the best (insert America Hurr comment here) but it was a good all around vehicle throughout the war.
 
Of course not. That is too efficient. That is not the Nazi way!

They increased the original 14,5 mm frontal armor to 80mm (30/50/50+30 and finally 80) and upgraded the gun. It was pretty much efficient. The "Nazi gigantomaniac overengineered superweapons instead of simple solutions" cliché is... stupid.
 
Also (a Very Un-German thing), perfect is the mortal enemy of good enough. They can make more Pz IV than keep changing for the next model every year (more Pz on the front and even more important, Spare parts, mechanics that know every trick in the book to keep Pz IV's running etc.

Again, not black and white.

The common myth, that the germans aimed for the perfect instead of the good enough... is at least misleading. They go for what they thought suit their needs - and those needs were different than f.e. the US needs.
Of course, they had their flaws and they lacked perfect hindsight, but still.

They cannot really make more PzIV troughout the war, unless they build more tank plants and do it earlier - and if you think, that should they build in the panther plants fours instead of panthers, the increase of output would have been not that great to justify the change (out of my arse: 1,2 PzIV instead of 1 panther. Hardly worth it.)
Now, of course, again, they were about 3-4 steps away to make the pzIV (and three) the best and most flexible/enduring tank in the war, but since they missed those in the design phase, they stuck with the decent (more than good enough) one they had.

Now, if you refer under the model change the subverisons, those were all good, justified changes, f.e. changing from F1 to F2 was more than necessary.
If you refer to the new model introduction again, there were immense pressure to do so. They needed something to bring the 88 to the field and after that, they needed something to keep some edge over the soviets in the pzbs after 42, needed badly.

And, maybe an often overlooked but very important factor: by 44, the gemans not only depleted they trained crews, but had to curtail their training to basically unacceptable levels. Should they not go "quality" over "quantity" the decline of german armour performance would have been more conspicuous.
 
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