Britain allied with Central Powers

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Plus, given the US' more or less isolationist mindset early on, they're likely to stay out until they absolutely have to get involved. Granted, if the UK starts sinking US ships bound for France, they're going to have to get involved sooner rather than later.

My Guess is, Such Traffic is Likeliest to Go The Southern Route ...

So Long as France Can Keep Both its African and Mediterranean Ports Open, Even a Rudimentary Convoy System, Will Practically Guarantee Business as Usual ...

The REAL Trick Comes Late in The War, as Both Alliances Will Retain an Ability to Telegraph Washington, Which Germany Lost in OTL Relatively Quickly, And Thus Will Be Able to Effect Which Side, if Any, The United States Eventually Joins!

 

[lordofalbion]

I Doubt The French Navy Would Stand Idly By While The Royal Navy Blockades their Ports, Furthermore a Britain in League with Germany Would Inspire a Militarization of The English Channel Not Seen in a Century ...

As for The Coastal Defenses, The Ones in Dover and Calais May Even Exchange Fire ...

Do you Want to Be One of The Soldiers Charged with Attempting an Invasion Under Those Conditions?

Firstly with regards to the channel being fortified, the combined navies of Britain and Greman would be able to defeat the french navy fairly quickly. Calais would obviously be the first target for naval bombardment.

The British navy by itself is without competitor preciecely because our army strength is so low. the first wave would probably be a disaster after that set of casulties the British would eventually move inland (with either a second landing needed or moving threough Germany if the coast is that well fortified)as much of the french forces would be gaurding their German border which would give the British forces time to establish beach heads and then we get trench warfare all around france virtually. They can olny take that kind of pressure for so long and even if we decide landing in france is to difficult there are plenty of colonies where we share a land border.

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Firstly with regards to the channel being fortified, the combined navies of Britain and Greman would be able to defeat the french navy fairly quickly. Calais would obviously be the first target for naval bombardment.

The British navy by itself is without competitor preciecely because our army strength is so low. the first wave would probably be a disaster after that set of casulties the British would eventually move inland (with either a second landing needed or moving threough Germany if the coast is that well fortified)as much of the french forces would be gaurding their German border which would give the British forces time to establish beach heads and then we get trench warfare all around france virtually. They can olny take that kind of pressure for so long and even if we decide landing in france is to difficult there are plenty of colonies where we share a land border.

If Anything, that Makes Galipoli Sound Like a Picnic ...

As I Said, The REAL Decider Comes Later on ...

How Do The Canadians Fare, When The United States Decides to Use The Opportunity, to Renew its Claims on New Brunswick and British Colombia?

 

[lordofalbion]

How Do The Canadians Fare, When The United States Decides to Use The Opportunity, to Renew its Claims on New Brunswick and British Colombia?

I imagine quite well to start with in OTL Canadians were bad ass fighters in the first world war and they would be on their own ground.

As for once American industry is up to speed really depends on how quickly we knock france out and whether any of the central powers (or possibly Mexico) are willing to help us hold the empire together.

Chances are we would have to come to some sort of settlement eventually but if German and Austrohungry stick with us then we might be able to get enough of a victory to have the canadian border reset to pre war bounderies, just paying compensation once the US is on it's own.

 

[David S Poepoe]

How Do The Canadians Fare, When The United States Decides to Use The Opportunity, to Renew its Claims on New Brunswick and British Colombia?

Renew? It didn't have any claims to begin with, let alone at the beginning of the 20th century.

 

[David S Poepoe]

The REAL Trick Comes Late in The War, as Both Alliances Will Retain an Ability to Telegraph Washington, Which Germany Lost in OTL Relatively Quickly, And Thus Will Be Able to Effect Which Side, if Any, The United States Eventually Joins!

Actually, Germany never lost telegraphic access to Washington at the outbreak of the Great War. How else was Zimmerman to send his telegram to Mexico or the Germans to warn that any ship in the war zone was subject to attack by submarine? The British did however monitor German communications traffic between Berlin and its embassies overseas.

 

[lordofalbion]

But if Britain is supporting Germany then how long would the French last?

I mean would the Americans get there in time?

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

I imagine quite well to start with in OTL Canadians were bad ass fighters in the first world war and they would be on their own ground.

As for once American industry is up to speed really depends on how quickly we knock france out and whether any of the central powers (or possibly Mexico) are willing to help us hold the empire together.

Chances are we would have to come to some sort of settlement eventually but if German and Austrohungry stick with us then we might be able to get enough of a victory to have the canadian border reset to pre war bounderies, just paying compensation once the US is on it's own.

Every Commonwealth Soldier Fighting in North America, is One Less Fighting in Europe ...

How Long Before British Troops Hafta Be Sent in to Tip The Balance Back in their Favour ...

What if NEITHER Theatre Can Be Tipped in their Favour, What then?

Renew? It didn't have any claims to begin with, let alone at the beginning of the 20th century.

The Relevant Treaties Weren't Even Signed Until The 1840s, with The Border Along The Strait of Juan de Fuca Not Being Completely Decided Until 1859 ...

That's Only 60 or 70 Years Ago from The Viewpoint of The Teens ...

I Can See 54' 40" or Fight Changing Over Rather Readily to, We've Changed Our Minds Dammit we Want it ALL!

Actually, Germany never lost telegraphic access to Washington at the outbreak of the Great War. How else was Zimmerman to send his telegram to Mexico or the Germans to warn that any ship in the war zone was subject to attack by submarine? The British did however monitor German communications traffic between Berlin and its embassies overseas.

In One of The Lesser Known Build Ups to The Great War, The British Government Cut The German Transatlantic Cable at The Azores ...

From then on All German Traffic to Washington had to Go Over British Wire at Some Point in its Transmission ...

Moreover The Americans were FAR Too Polite to Read German Diplomatic Traffic Going Over Anybody's Lines, The British had No Such Compunctions!

But if Britain is supporting Germany then how long would the French last?

I mean would the Americans get there in time?

The REAL Question is, How Long Can Britain Maintain The Balancing Act ...

It'd Be Like The War of 1812 All Over Again ...

Would The British Get to Canada in Time?

 

[David S Poepoe]

The Relevant Treaties Weren't Even Signed Until The 1840s, with The Border Along The Strait of Juan de Fuca Not Being Completely Decided Until 1859 ...

That's Only 60 or 70 Years Ago from The Viewpoint of The Teens ...

I Can See 54' 40" or Fight Changing Over Rather Readily to, We've Changed Our Minds Dammit we Want it ALL!

The REAL Question is, How Long Can Britain Maintain The Balancing Act ...

It'd Be Like The War of 1812 All Over Again ...

Would The British Get to Canada in Time?

Farfetched and probably not entertained by any alive at the time. Perhaps something like that may have appeared in a Hearst Newspaper editorial, but without some sort of scholarly writings it is - like all things on this site - a work of fiction.

 

[lordofalbion]

It might be far fetched but the Americans aren't going to be keen on having two allied powers controlling the whole of Europe. they might intervene if they see France about to fall. Also if they are supplying France with equipment then there is every chance that they might start losing ships and men and so be given a reason to enter.

 

[David S Poepoe]

It might be far fetched but the Americans aren't going to be keen on having two allied powers controlling the whole of Europe. they might intervene if they see France about to fall. Also if they are supplying France with equipment then there is every chance that they might start losing ships and men and so be given a reason to enter.

The Americans of 1914 didn't really care about what happened in Europe. They weren't necessarily isolationalists, they were prudent in their involvement. They wouldn't be keen on the idea, but if either the Entente or Central Powers won they were going to live with the consequences. William Jennings Bryan, Secretary of State, was right in that US businesses traded with the Allies at their own expense and peril. If their ships were lost in a war zone that their government had warned them to stay out, they had only to look at themselves for being the ones responsible.

Wilson and his administration strongly favored the Allies, but its possible that another administration would not hesitate to stay out of Europe.

 

[snerfuplz]

Actually rereading some material on this I found out that Otto Von Bismarck offered some sort of alliance to Britain. The British of course where still in Splendid Isolation so they politely declined. It could be possible if the British where shaken out of isolation faster, lets say by the French. They would take up Bismarcks offer of some sort of alliance.

 

[Arachnid]

Granted, if the UK starts sinking US ships bound for France, they're going to have to get involved sooner rather than later.

Actually not, the reason the Germans were sinking US ships in OTL was because they had no other option, U-boots couldn't capture ships, not only because of the small crew but the impossibility of getting them back to Germany through the blockade. When the British wanted to stop a neural ship entering a enemy port the simply sent a cruiser or destroyer to fire a few shots across its bow, it was usually very successful.

 

[lordofalbion]

Ok so America stays out of the war, Britain and German conquer France and Russia with the help of the rest of the central powers.

But what happens next, American businesss can sell goods as easily to Britain and the central power as they could to France and Russia so their strength will continue to grow, (probably not as quickly as in OTL) Germany tries to set up their unified trading block. But Britain is also more powerful then it was in the past and now has a hook on the continent that will require not just goods and services but also protection.

 

[giroton]

Well if the Fashoda Crysis turned into a limited war then maybe yes but France would had to act aggresively to the UK for them to ally with Centreal powers. When the clock reaches 1914 and WW1 plays then expect france to falls to pieces and the USA to enter of France's behalf if the Uk goes too far. Or the USA just might ignore the whole thing and leave Europe to burn

 

[David S Poepoe]

Well if the Fashoda Crysis turned into a limited war then maybe yes but France would had to act aggresively to the UK for them to ally with Centreal powers. When the clock reaches 1914 and WW1 plays then expect france to falls to pieces and the USA to enter of France's behalf if the Uk goes too far. Or the USA just might ignore the whole thing and leave Europe to burn

Why would the US enter the war? You have nothing but suppositions without foundations.

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Why would the US enter the war? You have nothing but suppositions without foundations.

If Britain Tries to Blockade French Ports, The Americans Might Be Induced to Trade with them Anyway ...

A Few Well Publicized Incidents and it's 1812 All Over Again, But With a European Component Much Closer to The Seven Years Rather than The Napoleonic Wars ...

The Real Fun Happens in The Pacific; The Japanese Have a Free Army Group and Imperial Germany is Still an Ally, Is The First Japanese Action Against Americans Going to Be in BLOODY House-to-House Fighting Down The Streets of Manila?

 

[David S Poepoe]

If Britain Tries to Blockade French Ports, The Americans Might Be Induced to Trade with them Anyway ...

A Few Well Publicized Incidents and it's 1812 All Over Again, But With a European Component Much Closer to The Seven Years Rather than The Napoleonic Wars ...

The Real Fun Happens in The Pacific; The Japanese Have a Free Army Group and Imperial Germany is Still an Ally, Is The First Japanese Action Against Americans Going to Be in BLOODY House-to-House Fighting Down The Streets of Manila?

Again you seem to be drawing at straws. The Americans can safely trade with the French via Spain. Also don't particularly know you believe there would be an Anglo-Japanese Alliance in place.

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Again you seem to be drawing at straws. The Americans can safely trade with the French via Spain. Also don't particularly know you believe there would be an Anglo-Japanese Alliance in place.

If Portugal Enters The War, on Either Side; Probably Over The Seizure of Interned French Ships, Instead of German Ones as in OTL ...

Spanish Neutrality, Which is a Questionable Prospect in and of itself, Won't Be Able to Stop Western European Waters from Becoming a HUGE Free-Fire Area, that Truly Neutral Shipping Would Enter at its Own Peril ...

As for an Anglo-Japanese Alliance, it was Originally Signed in 1902, with Russia as its Primary Target!

 

[David S Poepoe]

As for an Anglo-Japanese Alliance, it was Originally Signed in 1902, with Russia as its Primary Target!

For at least once you are wrong. The Anglo-Japanese Alliance grew out of two threats. Britain felt threatened at home by the expansion of the German Navy and so entered into alliance with Japan in order that it could reduce its forces in the Far East. Japan entered into the alliance in order to gain a European counterweight to any possible European intervention into its interests. Japan didn't wish to repeat the French, German and Russian opposition to its Treaty of Shimonoseki with China.

Russia wasn't the primary target, it was more a secondary target, of the alliance since then Britain would have been bound to enter the war.

For the rest, you are grasping at straws.