Brewster Buffalo - The Fighter that won the Second World War TL
- Thread starter Jukra
- Start date
What is the range of the Buffalo with a 500 lb bomb load? Can the Buffalo still outrange the Skua? The Skua, being a dive-bomber, should still be a more accurate bomber.
Hmm, the Buffalo with its long range and its bomb load, I can see it being used as a fighter-bomber by the RAF.
I have a really crazy Finnish Buffalo idea. The Graf Zeppelin does enter service. The Germans discover that the Me-109 is not suited to carrier operations, much like the Seafire. Looking around, their Finnish allies are building a version of a US Navy carrier fighter. So the Germans place an order for navalized Finnish Buffaloes. Sure, the USN Buffaloes suffered from landing gear failures aboard carriers, but the Germans don't know about that.
Hmm, the Buffalo with its long range and its bomb load, I can see it being used as a fighter-bomber by the RAF.
I have a really crazy Finnish Buffalo idea. The Graf Zeppelin does enter service. The Germans discover that the Me-109 is not suited to carrier operations, much like the Seafire. Looking around, their Finnish allies are building a version of a US Navy carrier fighter. So the Germans place an order for navalized Finnish Buffaloes. Sure, the USN Buffaloes suffered from landing gear failures aboard carriers, but the Germans don't know about that.
And of course you can't forget the Brewster F3A Shrike defensive fighter, the airshipborne variant of the F2A Buffalo discussed in my timeline for the US Naval Airship Service in World War Two. ZRCV class ships like the USS Sacramento could carry up to 10 such fighters, although in practice airships typically operated other types such as the OZF Seafin scout, SBZD Attacker reconnaissance bomber, and PBZF Harrier ASW floatplane.
The F3A was even less powerful than the standard F2A, being armed with only a pair of .30 cal. machine guns. On the other hand, because it was built extremely lightly for airship service, its agility and speed rivaled or exceeded early versions of the Mitsubishi A6M Zero and Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa. In fact, with suitable modifications for land-based service, the Shrike was the only US fighter capable of holding its own against the Japanese in a turning fight and, together with the Grumman Wildcat, effecively countered Japanese naval aviation in early 1942. Shrikes were also provided to the FAA and RAAF in 1941-42 and helped the Commonwealth forces maintain air superiority throughout the Burma, New Guinea and, India campaigns
The F3A was even less powerful than the standard F2A, being armed with only a pair of .30 cal. machine guns. On the other hand, because it was built extremely lightly for airship service, its agility and speed rivaled or exceeded early versions of the Mitsubishi A6M Zero and Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa. In fact, with suitable modifications for land-based service, the Shrike was the only US fighter capable of holding its own against the Japanese in a turning fight and, together with the Grumman Wildcat, effecively countered Japanese naval aviation in early 1942. Shrikes were also provided to the FAA and RAAF in 1941-42 and helped the Commonwealth forces maintain air superiority throughout the Burma, New Guinea and, India campaigns
I have a really crazy Finnish Buffalo idea. The Graf Zeppelin does enter service. The Germans discover that the Me-109 is not suited to carrier operations, much like the Seafire. Looking around, their Finnish allies are building a version of a US Navy carrier fighter. So the Germans place an order for navalized Finnish Buffaloes. Sure, the USN Buffaloes suffered from landing gear failures aboard carriers, but the Germans don't know about that.
AFAIK Finland wasn't actually building them. They got 44 of them and by '43 these (and all possible engines for them) were worn out and obsolete. Finns never got any further then attempting to build a Finnish version, the Humu, which ended up being too heavy, too underpowered and generally unfit for frontline service, or maybe any service, by '44. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humu
Humu is a real gem of Finnish industrial management. First, a carbon copy of B239 might have been a good idea if it entered service in 1941. Second, it was made out of wood and emloyed different construction than the original making the similarities more aerodynamical rather than real, thus demaning extensive redesign. Why not aluminium? It's used to license produce Fokker D XXI's - in 1944.
Third, Finnish airplane design team was small - so naturally the best results could be achieved by tasking it with multiple different design tasks with a result that no design got into production in reasonable time. Co-operation with the Swedish who were in similar procurement troubles and also trying to design an useful warplane using P&W Twin Wasp? No...
I don't know who was in overall management responsibility over Finnish aircraft industry but I suspect the same guy was employed by the British Aviation ministry post-war...
Markus
Banned
Objection(s):
- in 39/40 the Luftwaffe was still transiting too and even during the BoB the RAF could have benefited from well made Buffalos, if only to show them the 20mm cannonis not the sole sollution to firepower problems.
- the Buffalo and wildcat had a limited range only compared to late war planes like the P-38, -51. Compared to the Me109 or Spitfire both had looong legs. Don´t know about the Fulmar but what do you think is a better carrier fighter, well made F2A(4+.50, 144gal) or a Fulmar?
- it was transitional designs like the Wildcat, P-40 and to a lesser degree the Hurricanes and Hawk that defeated Japanese airpower before the new fighters entered service.
By the way, I was able to solve the Mk 13 torpedo mystery! Remember how we wondered about the max. drop speed of 420 mph in spite of no such fast torpedo bomber? The answer is the SB2C, a dive- and torpedo bomber. Obviously the designers envisaged the pilots to drop the "fish" after going into a high speed dive!
Errr, Hurricanes were being used as fighter-bombers from mid-41 onwards. In the defence of Malta they were used in the fighter role until mid-42 but only showed the inferiority of the Hurricane to the Me109-F.
By 1943 P-40 in the Med were either the Merlin powered version or fighter-bombers too.
And last but not least I crunched some numbers:
The original armament of the Buffalo were one .30 and one .50 gun. with 600 and 500 rounds per gun that´s 284 pounds. And the plane had no protection at all.
Armour and makeshift fuel tank protection will add 200 to 250 pounds to the plane.
Four .50 guns with 500 rounds each weight 880 lb, so we are talking about an 800 lb weight increase. With makeshift fuel tank protection!! The F2A-3 had two unprotected(!) 80 gal tanks and three self sealing aux. tank that added another 80 gal. and no doubt a lot of weight.