Bows and Arrows in the Civil War

Can silencer stuff work in non-european conditions? a desert or jungle or arctic, by example, well?

The silencer wasn't invented yet at the time.

But sure they can. A silencer is basically just a series of gates and stops the bullet has to travel through, dissipating sound waves and muzzle flash along the way. Why wouldn't it work in a desert or a jungle? Obviously you need to keep it clean, but the technology is surprisingly simple.
 
The silencer wasn't invented yet at the time.

But sure they can. A silencer is basically just a series of gates and stops the bullet has to travel through, dissipating sound waves and muzzle flash along the way. Why wouldn't it work in a desert or a jungle? Obviously you need to keep it clean, but the technology is surprisingly simple.

Thank, I see.

Well, I was just branching from my 'bows are silent' remark, then.
 
Longbow in the civil war

Longbows with several caveats could have been used "just about" at Waterloo in 1815 as an effective area weapon against assulting French infantry columns. Even then they would have needed to use the reverse slope as protection against Napoleon's artillery and probably had a close protection regiment of infantry assigned to counter close quarter with an enemy column. Then and only then 1,000 archers could deliver 12,000 arrows per minute onto a French column at 100-180 yds. This is the shock effect that an archer regiment could bring to an early 19th Century battlefield. By the 1860's rifles were becoming available not just for skirmishing but for massed infantry regiments. Artillery had further improved in range, firepower and numbers on a battlefield and most cavalry units carried carbines to give them a secondary mounted infantry role. The training for Longbow use by hghly skilled medieval fighters would not have been possible given the speed of the American Civil War. If you look at the confederate cadre they were able to draw upon most if not all would be familiar with using firearms for hunting game etc. Why would anyone want to reintroduce technology from another era that was far more technically difficult to master and would only yield an advantage of rate of fire under extremely limited battelfield scenarios, whilst exposing irreplaceable bowmen to fire from artillery, massed rifle fire or counter attack in the flanks from mounted infantry? The longbow passed into history as a superweapon of its day in the same way that air defence is no longer provided over the UK by the Spitfire
 
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If a bow was the best that was available.

What a general would want is to have troops armed with the most modern military rifles. Failing that, muskets and shotguns would be a good alternative. Didn't most militia show up at muster with their own weapon, and were upgraded from there, as resources permitted?

As one poster up thread pointed out, some troops were armed with pikes. While I understand that *good* training with the things takes years, the "Ya see that group of people in uniform over there? Plint an arrer at'em!" school doesn't seem to be too technical (and is actually simpler than spear formation training).

<threadjack>
Re using bowmen as snipers,
BTW, I've always been interested in military grade air rifles. Why did gunpowder beat them out?
</threadjack>
 
Bow to the bow

Initially, I wonder how many bow hunters were around in those days, especially in the south. It was obviously cheaper than a fire arm for poor folk, and had the salutary effect of not scaring off all the game with the first shot as guns did.
A second question is whether most riflemen were also armed with a revolver, allowing an increased rate of fire against an advancing line as they neared the defensive positions. This would cut into the rate of fire argument in favor of bows. If not, then their use at short range might have been of great advantage. Barring the existence of a considerable number of personally owned bows, the most salient factor against their use was probably one of logistics, i.e., their manufacture, transport, the weight of an arrow vs. a mine ball, etc. Conversely, unlike lead ball ammo, they could, under some circumstances, be recovered for re-use.
Remember, they passed out of use because of defensive advances, not just the advent of firearms; but the Civil War soldier had no such defense against their use. I shouldn't think that the bows to be used would have been prohibitively powerful like the long bow, nor would they be used as extreme range but only within a hundred yards or so, so the specialized training would not have been such a negative factor. Simply aiming generally at the advancing line would have been sufficient. Also, they had the added benefit of not being line of sight weapons, allowing archers to be almost totally hidden from fire behind defensive structures or terrain (tho' it's my impression that advancing troops themselves did not fire as they advanced, just artillery). If used against the flanks of the line, the commanding officer might not realize that they were being attacked and weakened due to the lack of sound and smoke, and might forego reinforcement and allow him to mistakenly rely on the decimated flanks for maneuvering they were no long capable of.
It is hard to discount the rate of fire almost 7 or 8 time greater than the rifled musket, which was also used in general fire, not necessarily against picked targets obscured by their own smoke. Let's not forget, the bowmen would be riflemen before and after their use, so they are not "dedicated" bowmen. Finally, they would be invaluable adjuncts to the rifles in night encounters, preserving the element of surprise as long as possible and sowing confusion in the enemy's lines.
 
There were bows and arrows used during the Civil War....by the Apache, Cheyenne, Navajo, and Sioux tribes against the USA. It ended badly in all cases. Bows and arrows worked in irregular hit and run warfare. Put them in an army v. army war and the side using them will be slaughtered by rifles and cannons. The CSA would be better off doing Malvern Hills in every single battle, the process would be cleaner, neater, and easier to make into Martyrdom in postwar whitewashing.
 
Dear lord, no. Besides the fact bows are not the equivalent of a musket in a Napoleonic battlefield. The equivalent of a musket or rifle would've been the standard pike/halberds/other hand-to-hand, shock weapon. Bows are the equivalent of artillery and cannon, both of which heavily outclass bowmen.

There are also many, many advantages of a musket or rifle over a bow anyways (from price, to training, to shock factor, to logistics [weather, ease of shot production over arrows, etc.], to lethality [musket balls and bullets are far more lethal than arrows], to ease of use [fatigue sets in quite quickly especially when using bows of high draw weights: muskets and rifles are also far more useful in close quarters and siege/urban situations].
 

Thande

Donor
There were proposals to create longbow regiments in the British Army in the Napoleonic Wars, and some military historians reckon they could have beat equal numbers of enemy musketmen...but as said above, the trouble is for a longbow to be worth it you have to train the bowman for years, and thus if you're trading one longbowman killed for two enemy musketmen, it's costing you far more than it cost the enemy in the long run.
 
well i dont know about you, but me for one would be a hell of a lot more frightened by a well trained bowman with his weapon of choice, than some grunt that just got a gun slapped in his hand. i think it'd be a possibility for the union or confederacy to have an archery squad similar to that of a special ops team nowadays. to take out enemy encapments of limited sizes quietly, or for guerilla attacks in which they wanted to make the enemy think it was a loose band of indians rather than an enemy seek and destroy mission. to tell you the truth i was actually planning on putting the special op idea into my continued civil war storyline.
 
well i dont know about you, but me for one would be a hell of a lot more frightened by a well trained bowman with his weapon of choice, than some grunt that just got a gun slapped in his hand. i think it'd be a possibility for the union or confederacy to have an archery squad similar to that of a special ops team nowadays. to take out enemy encapments of limited sizes quietly, or for guerilla attacks in which they wanted to make the enemy think it was a loose band of indians rather than an enemy seek and destroy mission. to tell you the truth i was actually planning on putting the special op idea into my continued civil war storyline.
A better idea would probably to just get actual Indians to do it instead of scouring the nation for anybody who might be an accomplished archer who's both capable of taking part in commando operations and actually willing to fight.
 
Someone asked the very same question, only about the ARW, in this Straight Dope column, which pretty much sums it up. Apparently even Benjamin Franklin thought about using bows due to the shortage of guns and gunpowder. Long story short, you would be able to manufacture guns from scratch in less time than it would take to train longbowmen.
 
well, yeah they could just use indians, but im pretty sure both armies would be higher willing to use their own men, than highering mercinaries (indians) it goes against the art of war. also it wouldnt take that much scowering at least i wouldnt think so at least for the confederacy considering a high amount were hunters/farmers, they dont need to be perfect just enough to get the job done. and they can train themselves. but im sure there was at least 15% of people who knew how to adequtely use the bow, so just use them not to mention if you want to use indians you could also use them to train them.
 
well, yeah they could just use indians, but im pretty sure both armies would be higher willing to use their own men, than highering mercinaries (indians) it goes against the art of war. also it wouldnt take that much scowering at least i wouldnt think so at least for the confederacy considering a high amount were hunters/farmers, they dont need to be perfect just enough to get the job done. and they can train themselves. but im sure there was at least 15% of people who knew how to adequtely use the bow, so just use them not to mention if you want to use indians you could also use them to train them.

Actually both sides used Native American mercenaries during the Civil War. The CSA more than the USA though.
 

gaijin

Banned
Regarding the use of bows for "silently" taking out enemies. The arrows might be silent, but something tells me the men who suddenly discover pieces of wood sticking from their body will be far from silent. My bet would be that screaming at the top of lungs would ensue.
 
Regarding the use of bows for "silently" taking out enemies. The arrows might be silent, but something tells me the men who suddenly discover pieces of wood sticking from their body will be far from silent. My bet would be that screaming at the top of lungs would ensue.

That made me laugh. I agree- it would take an impossible level of accuracy to silently kill foes, accuracy that the bow doesn't really have.
 
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