Books with Great Premises that failed utterly to carry them out

Super Parker Brothers · Mar 30, 2011

If there is a great river that means there needs to be a fair amount of land and space for it to collect it from. It all seems to fly against geography as we know it. They somehow manage to flood the Great Plains? The name Atlantis itself seems fairly moronic as well, especially as calling it Antilles would have worked far better as Purto Rico and the Virgin Islands actually match those on a map. Anyways, if there are island wouldn't that mean the Norse should have perhaps stood more of a chance? All the lumber would have been invaluable for their colonies further north. I also must wonder what British did with all the Natives, as there is apparently a fair deal of ports on the west coast.

Wanderlust · Mar 30, 2011

B_Munro said:
Not to mention the French civil war. To be fair, the sudden removal of the US economy plus the giant radioactive death cloud from burning US cities and unsupervised nuclear reactors probably would be a bit disruptive, but I suppose he felt he needed more of a body count to ram the point home.

Bruce

And in doing so, he completely neglected his point. 'America disintegrates messily triggering WW3 and an ecological meltdown as an FU to anti-Americans' is different to 'Here's why America is good for the world;'. It's like he didn't believe his own reasoning and, as you say, just went for the bodycount.

And the ending for book #2 where a character basically says 'Ah, we've run out of book, Caitlin. Let's get out of here; we can finish this next time.' *rolleyes*.

Still... I'll probably read the next one anyway

SquireJames · Mar 30, 2011

My vote would be for the Bible.

Come on, all that build up and such a lousy ending. The whole "End of the World" thing is so ASB and overdone these days

Just joking guys, hey I'm allowed to poke a little fun at my own religion right?

I always thought "Guns of the South" had a bit of a lousy ending. But, it is a Turtledove book, I guess endings are not his forte.

Polish Eagle · Mar 30, 2011

Super Parker Brothers said:
If there is a great river that means there needs to be a fair amount of land and space for it to collect it from. It all seems to fly against geography as we know it. They somehow manage to flood the Great Plains? The name Atlantis itself seems fairly moronic as well, especially as calling it Antilles would have worked far better as Purto Rico and the Virgin Islands actually match those on a map. Anyways, if there are island wouldn't that mean the Norse should have perhaps stood more of a chance? All the lumber would have been invaluable for their colonies further north. I also must wonder what British did with all the Natives, as there is apparently a fair deal of ports on the west coast.

There's plenty of room for a small continent in the Mid-Atlantic. Yes, I do think Norse colonization would seem likely along the north coast (no pesky skraelings to deal with either, as there are no natives on Atlantis).

Now that I think of it, Atlantis seems to be a good idea in need of a redux.

Here's my impression of the world of Atlantis:

Nietzsche · Mar 30, 2011

Polish Eagle said:
There's plenty of room for a small continent in the Mid-Atlantic. Yes, I do think Norse colonization would seem likely along the north coast (no pesky skraelings to deal with either, as there are no natives on Atlantis).

Now that I think of it, Atlantis seems to be a good idea in need of a redux.

Here's my impression of the world of Atlantis:

And how do you propose to fix the issue of, well, the climate? Europe is going to be...different.

Polish Eagle · Mar 30, 2011

Nietzsche said:
And how do you propose to fix the issue of, well, the climate? Europe is going to be...different.

The same way Turtledove did it: handwaving it.

B_Munro · Mar 30, 2011

Robert Heinlein's The Number of the Beast dissolves into self-referentiality and metafictional goo at the end, if you can call it an end.

Among recent stuff I've read, Patrick Lee's The Breach has a very cool idea, but spits in its own eye when (whited out for spoilers) it turns out Java man is bright enough to use 20th century tech to upgrade his pointy stick to a rocket launcher.

Bruce

Gregory Nero Arken · Mar 31, 2011

A while back I bought all the Discworld books my old library didn't have. Pratchett's early work wasn't his best, with Small Gods being the most pushy. I also found mixed messages in Nation, which was rather preachy.

Super Parker Brothers · Mar 31, 2011

Nietzsche said:
And how do you propose to fix the issue of, well, the climate? Europe is going to be...different.

Doesnt explain the shape. Atlatis was supposed to be round. Besides they would probably just name it after a monarch or Asian land. Might I suggest we all look over maps of the continental shelf, try finding something long there and maybe seeing if it could act with the other lands as a sort of funnel for the warm or cold water? Oh, and the map needs to fix Malay borders with Thailand and Brunei. And the Colombian border with Panama. Anyways does anyone know how things back in Europe look like? I expect less gold went back home.

mowque · Mar 31, 2011

I happened to like Dark Tower's ending....

Sachyriel · Mar 31, 2011

Mister B. Gone by Clive Barker.

Damn it how the hell am I supposed to read it again after I burn it?

Falkenburg · Mar 31, 2011

Wolf Hall

I must admit I fell for the hype when Wolf Hall came out.

Characters with incredible potential set in a time of seismic social and political change. What could go wrong?

As it turns out, everything. Mantel served up one of the dullest, most frustrating and disappointing piles of garbage I've read in a long time

(and I've read the Count of Monte Cristo!

).

Falkenburg

Tocomocho · Apr 1, 2011

Polish Eagle said:
There's plenty of room for a small continent in the Mid-Atlantic. Yes, I do think Norse colonization would seem likely along the north coast (no pesky skraelings to deal with either, as there are no natives on Atlantis).

Now that I think of it, Atlantis seems to be a good idea in need of a redux.

Here's my impression of the world of Atlantis:

Not bad, but I think it would be better if it was smaller and a bit further from the Caribbean (this way you "risk" getting it colonized by Carib peoples and the like). There is also the issue of sea currents.

BTW, I assume "Atlantis" is a volcanic-generated landmass like Iceland rather than a drifting miniature continent like Madagascar, right?

Super Parker Brothers · Apr 1, 2011

Maybe for Atlantis there are differencs with the ocean level meaning the exposure of more islands. On second thought that would mean the references to European cities would no longer be feasable and there would mearly be a larger America in the way.

Polish Eagle · Apr 1, 2011

Tocomocho said:
Not bad, but I think it would be better if it was smaller and a bit further from the Caribbean (this way you "risk" getting it colonized by Carib peoples and the like). There is also the issue of sea currents.

BTW, I assume "Atlantis" is a volcanic-generated landmass like Iceland rather than a drifting miniature continent like Madagascar, right?

Seems to be. Sorta like a bloated Iceland, geologically speaking. Though the books, for some reason, never mentioned any active volcanoes (I think).

I have an extremely rough outline of what a "realistic" Atlantis-TL would look like:

Circa 1100 AD: Norse explorers discover the northern tip of the new continent. Seeing as it has good lumber, easy game, and no Skraelings, most Norse in Vinland emigrate to this new land, christening it "Koparland" (Copper-land, after the color of the wood).

The Norse colonies grow as time goes on, exporting high-quality lumber to Iceland.

Circa 1300 AD: Basque fishermen set up huts and smokehouses on the east coast of Koparland to preserve their cod stores. Basque settlements also grow greatly.

Circa 1425 AD: European nations are mostly aware of this new land.

Petike · Apr 1, 2011

Polish Eagle said:
no pesky skraelings to deal with either, as there are no natives on Atlantis

That makes it even more fridge-logicy. I mean... Why wouldn't you like to settle on a nice mini-continent that isn't that far from the American mainland ? Sooner or later, some natives from the OTL Carribean would reach its southern regions and most probably settle down there.

Uriel · Apr 3, 2011

... and the later books in the desert planet series

Tocomocho · Apr 4, 2011

Petike said:
That makes it even more fridge-logicy. I mean... Why wouldn't you like to settle on a nice mini-continent that isn't that far from the American mainland ? Sooner or later, some natives from the OTL Carribean would reach its southern regions and most probably settle down there.

To give credit where credit is due, remember that sailing tech was waaaay behind in the Caribbean than it was in Polynesia. If natives never reached Bermuda IOTL, they might as well miss an entire island-continent that is not visible from the Antilles.

Super Parker Brothers · Apr 4, 2011

Tocomocho said:
To give credit where credit is due, remember that sailing tech was waaaay behind in the Caribbean than it was in Polynesia. If natives never reached Bermuda IOTL, they might as well miss an entire island-continent that is not visible from the Antilles.

Meaning that the Norse, who were themselves able to do the Polynesian things, would be on top for both. Kind of depends if there was ever a landbrigde leading to it or if storms would throw people there.

Atlantic Friend · Apr 4, 2011

- All of Turtledove's books. They start great, and then crash in "bleh" territory.

- Most US/UK techno-military thrillers. If he authors invested in the elaboration of the geopolitical background 10% of the energy they devote to the description of the new über-super miracle weapon that's going to make the heroes reign supremen, maybe they could squirt an acceptable novel from time to time.