Black Population of the United States

[Spartan]

I'm working on an ATL of my own and I was wondering what could have caused the Slave/Black Population of the US mainly the South to double of be roughly 6 million of the 9 million people in the South at 1860?

Slaves were still being smuggled into the US up until 1860 could this be used? The problem I see with this is Blacks would be far more African than North American.

Maybe is more slaves were brought in early on in American history? Maybe the South smuggles in larger numbers that are quickly assimilated by American Slaves? Or possibly the Slave population just explodes push up the number of Slaves and Freed Blacks.

Where would the slaves come from if more are smuggled in? The Grain Coast? If the Grain Coast then what would the affect be on the foundation and development of Liberia and Sierra Leone?

If more slaves are brought in early on then where are they focused? In the South? The North? Through the colonies?

How would a larger number of Blacks in North America affect the abolitionists movement? Would there be more support for colonizing the Blacks in Canada? Would it make Liberia even more attractive to abolitionists?

Would affect would this have on South Society? Would it make Southern slave society more like that on Jamaica or any of the other Caribbean island where there were prominent numbers of Blacks to Whites with absentee slave owners who owns the slaves but live in the North or in cities far ways fromt he countryside where the plantations are?

Would Liberia even be established? What would be the future for Liberia if it had a massive supply of Black to draw on to settle the Grain Coast? Would Liberia be a Western African equivalent of the US in that it would rely on immigrants for population growth, push its borders in an attempt to seize more land for its own use, and have frequent battles with the indigenous population? Would this Liberia have the strength or US backing to seize or absorb Sierra Leone which was also founded by freed American slaves?

What affect would a larger number of Blacks free and enslaved have on Black nationalism and separatism?

 

[Hierophant]

What if it were just legal to trade slaves with other nations in the Americas, so southerners buy from Cuba, Brazil, or probably Mexico.

 

[Spartan]

The only problem with that is slaves from Spanish colonies would have a Spanish culture about them like Catholicism, speaking Spanish, and other cultural things. However it could work with British Colonies like Jamaica and the Bahamas.

 

[Hierophant]

So your saying that it wouldnt be harder to integrate Africans fresh from their homes, then already assimilated Spanish slaves? For one, the Spanish slaves will be used to slavery, and being sold to Americans will only improve their lot. Second, religion will only be partially a factor, since they will only be allowed to worship in the way of their master, if at all. So maybe black spirituality is influenced by catholism. Language isnt a real problem, they will probably be easier to use then someone from a completely differnet language branch.

I think that if you made it so Mexico set a date for their emancipation, instead of immediately after independence, many Mexican slaveholders would sell them to get some money back. So the majority of Mexican slaves end up in Louisiana, and the rest of the Transmississipi (New Orleans is the obvious port of entry). So Mexico has less African makeup and culture (which wasnt much OTL). The US has an increase in slaves, and Lousiana is more heavily Catholic.

Its possible that some Mexican slaveholders would move to the province of Tejas, since its farhter away from the central government. In Texas they could practise slavery illegally. This would increase the amount of Tejanos when Texas fights for independence, which will still happen, maybe a few years earlier. The Tejanos might me large enough to balance power with the Texians (American/Irish/German) settlers. The Tejanos could prevent union with the US.

 

[Spartan]

Well I wanted more Blacks but I want the language and spirituality to evolution pretty much the same way. Like the reason I see the problem with Spanish slaves is in the US its Africa to the US so that is African religion mixed with Protestant reiligion the the result doing the road is Pentecostalism. If its Africa-Spanish Colony-US then you have another ingredient added to the recipe and with that extra bit how would that change things? Would Pentecostalism still develop? Would its be a Protestant denomination or would its be a type of Black Catholicism like how Catholic groups around the world have a mixed of Catholicism and whatever indigenous belief that were mixed in. And with language how would the African to Spanish to English affect the development of Black dialect? I wanted to keep Black culture the same but increase there numbers. Its the only reason why I saw a problem with Spanish colonies because they have a lot of slaves already exposed to Christianity and have already absorbed a culture and the sheer number of them would see them absorb American Blacks instead of the other way around.

 

[Bulgaroktonos]

Perhaps there is a ban on trading slaves with anybody after the expiration for importation from Africa date set in the Consitution. Plus, more effective interdiction perhaps?

 

[Spartan]

Perhaps there is a ban on trading slaves with anybody after the expiration for importation from Africa date set in the Consitution. Plus, more effective interdiction perhaps?

Err... but the purpose here is to increase the number of Blacks in the US.

 

[Bulgaroktonos]

Oops. Hmmmm.....don't know now.

 

[Hierophant]

The thing is the black population of Mexico was small, so they would be easily assimilated. The reason I mentioned them is because Mexico abolished slavery at an early date, and that its reasonable to think that if given time the Mexican slaveholders would have sold them to cut their losses. In no way is this going to bring the black pop. of the US by several million.

Ill go and find some numbers for you.

 

[eschaton]

I think your biggest issue is not going to be finding a source for more slaves, but an economic demand for more slaves. If there is such a demand, the price of slaves will rise, and as a result there will be some way more are procured, be it from Africa or through more 'encouragement' of slaves to breed prodigiously.

Assuming that slavery is not expanded geographically, you either need to develop a more labor-intensive cash-crop system, or else have slaves do a much wider range of jobs in the south. The latter is unlikely, as it requires whites not to move to the south in great numbers, and slaves taking up too many freeman positions destroys the domestic market in the south (no one has money to buy anything).

The best system, it would seem, would be if more of the south could be used for cash crops as intensively as the Antilles were, but I'm not sure how feasible this actually is. Someone with some experience with agricultural history would have to tell you I'm afraid.

 

[Hierophant]

How about the Cotton gin is discovered in 1691, and over the next hundred years the demand for slaves trebles, so that the black population is as large as you want it.

The only problem is that the more blacks you have in America, the less they will be assimilated. So you have the case of the Sea Islands, spread from East Texas to southern Virginia.

I think its possible that if King Cotton became the main power in the south so early on, slaveowners would ber able to purchase more land, so the poor white populations of the southern states will be reduced, as they will either go north or west.

So if you do have a civil war, the south will have a huge manpower deficiency, maybe 5-6 to 1.

 

[Spartan]

My Civil War starts with John Brown at Harper's Ferry so 5-6 to 1 is all the better.

I don't need a big increase just of the 9-10 million people in the South 6-7 million need to be black. So by 1860 I need 2-3 million more people.

 

[Zor]

Have the Cotton Gin invented a decade or two earlier, thus causing a greater number of slaves to be imported to the States.

Zor

 

[Raymann]

Zor is right, if you just want a few million more have the Gin invented earlier.

Don't worry about assimilation, the people of the sea islands mostly were free people and escaped slaves. Slavers got rid of most African customs quick and the rest become part of Southern culture (i.e. cooking).

 

[wkwillis]

Maybe slaves can still be imported after 1808? That works both ways. The slaves are worth less money because they have to compete with slaves from Africa, and they are treated worse because the slave owners don't need to keep them alive.
So we wind up with more slaves treated worse. I presume you want a slave revolt a la Haiti?

 

[Spartan]

Maybe slaves can still be imported after 1808? That works both ways. The slaves are worth less money because they have to compete with slaves from Africa, and they are treated worse because the slave owners don't need to keep them alive.
So we wind up with more slaves treated worse. I presume you want a slave revolt a la Haiti?

You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Spartan]

Ok, cotton gin invented in 1742 would work fine for me coupled with the importation of more slaves as well as increase in natural growth, and smuggling after 1808. I’ll iron everything out.

Now how about Liberia, how would a bigger slave population affect its development? Do you guys think as slaves become free that there might be a greater likelihood of Liberia becoming a massive dumping ground for Southern freed slaves? Or would there be a movement to pursue freed in Liberia since America wouldn’t seem like a land of opportunity to free Blacks? Or would Liberia never come to be established because the need for slaves is firmly established with the early invention of the cotton gin?

 

[eschaton]

Maybe slaves can still be imported after 1808? That works both ways. The slaves are worth less money because they have to compete with slaves from Africa, and they are treated worse because the slave owners don't need to keep them alive.
So we wind up with more slaves treated worse. I presume you want a slave revolt a la Haiti?

One issue with this is if slaves are treated worse, and have a low sale value, they would have a higher death rate, and probably less children. You might see a situation more like Brasil, which recieved far more slave imports than the U.S., but worked most slaves to death rather than relying on a domestic market, thus limiting the growth of its slave population.

 

[Spartan]

That's a good point, I'm going to limit the growth from external sources after 1808 though their will be smuggling and have slightly more come in earlier on.

Would it be possible to have so many slaves come from the Grain and Rice Coast that much of Liberia and Sierra Leone are depopulated when Britain and the US start settling freed slaves there?