Best monarch or head of state to kill off early for a more prosperous future
- Thread starter OldScifi
- Start date
Couple pages ago I think. This thread is already in good speed for derailing.
unprincipled peter
Donor
Here's one that might be a little iffy:
William III.
It is probably bad for multiple countries, but it may be good for Dutch Republic. DR went into heavy debt putting William on the throne of England, and then lost power relevancy following Britain into the War of Spanish Succession, and gained pretty much nothing out of it. No William maybe leads to a much different situation. A different leader will take over from the House of Orange. James II might hold on to his throne, or may lose it to Mary, Anne, or another usurper. This has ripples in the 9YW, the power play to take over from Carlos II in Spain, and the War of Spanish Succession. William was quite adamant about tying DR to England, and opposition to the Bourbons. While he died shortly after Carlos, he had set the table for both England and DR to be major players in the WoSS. No matter the outcome of WoSS, if it is short, DR comes out of it in much better shape.
William III.
It is probably bad for multiple countries, but it may be good for Dutch Republic. DR went into heavy debt putting William on the throne of England, and then lost power relevancy following Britain into the War of Spanish Succession, and gained pretty much nothing out of it. No William maybe leads to a much different situation. A different leader will take over from the House of Orange. James II might hold on to his throne, or may lose it to Mary, Anne, or another usurper. This has ripples in the 9YW, the power play to take over from Carlos II in Spain, and the War of Spanish Succession. William was quite adamant about tying DR to England, and opposition to the Bourbons. While he died shortly after Carlos, he had set the table for both England and DR to be major players in the WoSS. No matter the outcome of WoSS, if it is short, DR comes out of it in much better shape.
Ah, sorry about the derail.
But on the subject of Caribbean: Fulgencio Batista. He ran a fledging democracy into the ground and practically gave Cuba over to foreign interests due to corrupt dealings. No Batista might also lead to no Castro and no Cuban Missile Crisis. However, I don't know much about the 1933 junta, so it's possible another military strongman could have taken power.
But on the subject of Caribbean: Fulgencio Batista. He ran a fledging democracy into the ground and practically gave Cuba over to foreign interests due to corrupt dealings. No Batista might also lead to no Castro and no Cuban Missile Crisis. However, I don't know much about the 1933 junta, so it's possible another military strongman could have taken power.
I will push my luck and swing back to Haiti. François 'Papa Doc' Duvalier was elected president in 1957 in a middling-corrupt election on a populist platform. He started a perhaps justifiably paranoid autocrat with little trust of the army or the mulatto socio-economic elite. Then a heart attack in May 1959 left him in a nine-hour coma, which has been widely theorized to have caused long-term neurological issues (read: he lost his damned mind).
Let us say he is dropped outright instead. There is still extant political opposition, and even some of the loyalists who he was putting in charge of the Army at the time could move in, but it is hard to see who can manage worse than the Tonton Macoute.
Let us say he is dropped outright instead. There is still extant political opposition, and even some of the loyalists who he was putting in charge of the Army at the time could move in, but it is hard to see who can manage worse than the Tonton Macoute.
This does bring up an interesting question about this thread because to Aluma killing Ferdinand is great(And I agree because I'm a major France fan) and to Tocomocho it would be awful, whether killing him would actually make for a better future is debatable on what you consider good because at the end of the day we have our biases in what consider to be a better future because it involves this nation being buffed or that nation being screwed by a head of state dying, like how a Britwanker would go ballistic at the idea of someone like Cromwell, Elizabeth I or Henry VIII being killed while someone who wants to see the Dutch or Spanish or Irish do well would cheer on that.
But I do agree with Aluma, killing Ferdinand is good because it butterflies away Spain and Habsburg dominance and allows France to become the dominant power in Europe and I like that.
In my case its not that I want Super France, but because I think Ferdinand represents everything wrong with the Spanish Empire
He pushed for kicking the conversos from the peninsula while his wife thought it was economically dumb, he wanted to focus on continental bullshit like trying to conquer Italy and become the HRE which ultimately doomed Spain long term and it was him whose marriage with Isabella led to the castillian-aragonese union while Castille had far better options for a partnership in Portugal, France, heck even England would have been better
He sucked
Everything attributed to him that was good for Spain was his wife's doing
She financed Columbus, she wanted to focus on America and thought the hispanic-indigenous union was the future of the Hispanidad, it was her standing up to her brother that allowed her to pick her husband(albeit poorly) that created what we consider Spain
Everything the Spanish Empire was and that Spain is today is because of her, not him, he's only overrated because he was a man and his mistakes led Spain to ruin
He pushed for kicking the conversos from the peninsula while his wife thought it was economically dumb, he wanted to focus on continental bullshit like trying to conquer Italy and become the HRE which ultimately doomed Spain long term and it was him whose marriage with Isabella led to the castillian-aragonese union while Castille had far better options for a partnership in Portugal, France, heck even England would have been better
He sucked
Everything attributed to him that was good for Spain was his wife's doing
She financed Columbus, she wanted to focus on America and thought the hispanic-indigenous union was the future of the Hispanidad, it was her standing up to her brother that allowed her to pick her husband(albeit poorly) that created what we consider Spain
Everything the Spanish Empire was and that Spain is today is because of her, not him, he's only overrated because he was a man and his mistakes led Spain to ruin
Honestly you could argue Spain forming was bad for Castile in general: they payed the bulk of taxes, the bulk of soldiers for the empire came from them, sure the nobles and merchants benefitted from all the silver and gold and high positions but the population languished and actually was growing negatively due to all the burdens the Habsburgs were placing on them, because having to keep tabs on multiple fronts when you don't have the population or centralization of France and even England isn't very wise, even worst is that Aragon completely refused to have more taxes at them and any attempt at messing with their traditional rights was met with extreme resistance that only really ended when the Bourbons came to power, it really was a sort of parasite in not only Castile but also in Italy and the Netherlands, all of whom contributed to supporting the empire in one way or another, but not Aragon.
Still on the topic of medieval son of bitches
Something my kiwi friend showed me
Ottokar should have won, period
Something my kiwi friend showed me
Now Im not saying the Habsburgs and Germany in general were cursed with a antisemitic curse that only was lifted when they killed that last austrian that ruled over the country, but I am saying he estabimished a terrible precedent and as the founder of the dynasty that kinda made it stink from the get go
Ottokar should have won, period
What Ferdinand? The Catholic or the Tyrant? Both be bad. Specially when implies involving in European stupidities
Pretty sure it's the Catholic one since Aluma mentioned him being married to Isabella