lordapocalipsis
Banned
Interesting thread, anxious to see the the other planets, M, R and U look promising
Beedok's Maps Thread
- Thread starter Beedok
- Start date
It's more just as a map. The PoD here is in the early 1860s before Ottawa was even named the capital.
So this is Ottawa is your Here the Sun Sets west siries?
Or just a unrelated Alt Ottawa?
Yes, the Sun Has Set in the West Ottawa. Bigger than OTL, and also with lower car ownership rates than OTL.
Well more the city was bigger before the Green Belt was schemed up, so it's further out (far enough that it's actually mostly working, apart from pre-existing communities).
It bothers me more than it should that American territories are the normal darker shade but the you've swapped the province/territory colours for Canada...and South Africa.
So Australia joined the BIF and Communists China won... Mostly.
What year is this one you haven't updated the title or date
Well US territories have greater autonomy than states (apparently), and the darker shade represents autonomous zones. The French and British followed a similar model). Meanwhile in Canada (and this South Africa) the provinces have far more autonomy while the Territories are effectively run by the federal government, with only very slight autonomy to free up the national government's time a bit.
I'll say it when I post the full write up.
1970:
The 1960s were a revolutionary age (even if the two biggest revolutions sat partially in the 1950s and 1970s).
The Chinese Revolution was the United States' biggest failure. Roughly 2 million troops from the Bogata Compact would serve in the war (roughly 45% from the United States), but the shear scale of China prevented them from making a major difference (poor equipment for Mexican, Colombian, and Venezuelan soldiers reduced their efficiency further. Many Peruvian and Bolivian soldiers would find their pay inconsistent as well, with significant banditry and desertion occuring from all the Compact's minor powers. Combined with low morale for the Compact's Chinese Allies and it was clear the war was a losing proposition. By 1962 Moscow's aid for the Chinese socialists was increasing rapidly, a number of zero interest loans that were mostly used to purchase Eurasian manufactured arms boosted the socialists' airforce massively. The Americans would retain dominance in the skies, but at least now it could be contested. Then 1963 saw the Republicans invade the barely controlled regions in the far south where pro-democracy rebels had near total control. Beginning to panic the Compact unleashed a wave of massacres on disloyal (and suspected to be disloyal) towns and villages across the regions of China they still held. Their effort to stamp out dissent lead to mass dissertion from the Chinese State military, while an outraged Japanese public pushed Tokyo to threaten a blockade of American military ships headed to China. Washington's initial response was rather confrontational.
War panic swept the globe for a few tense months in 1963. Canada began drumming up recruitment, and the experimental new Arrow interceptors were rushed into production (testing was mostly complete, though veranda generals to this day debate over which kinks could have proved fatal for the advanced aircraft if a war had broken out). Meanwhile Moscow declared full support for Japan's proposal, saying that the future of China belonged to the Chinese People. The Americans weighed the odds of their being able to take the Entente and Istanbul Accord at the same time, and felt the war wouldn't go well. Instead the Compact bowed out of the war in an awkward evacuation, swarmed by Chinese State Party members bribing their way onto transport craft to escape the Socialists or Democratic forces' wrath. Roughly 700 000 Chinese State Party members would evacuate with 900 000 Compact forces aboard crowded transport craft and helicopters. A further 70 000 Compact forces were abandoned, mostly Mexican or Colombian soldiers, primarely to make room for Chinese evacuees who had paid large enough bribes (and perhaps 50 000 more deserters who were engaged in banditry or had defected to opposing forces remaind in China as well). Outraged would sweep Mexico and Colombia in the aftermath, protests sweeping both nations were ended in blood with hundreds dead.
The war had also heavily drained the US treasury, and (along with the loss of trade to China and worsening relations with most of the rest of the globe) this lead to a period of severe stagnation, especially with the need to prop up most of the Compact's smaller members with various grants. Washington's ability to respond however was blinded by various companies fudging their numbers to retain lucrative contracts and a massive uptick in corruption. The leading cause of Compact growth and economic stability at the time was Brazil's ongoing industrialisation and the exploitation of minor allies for their natural resources.
Moscow had a much better decade. Their economy was also starting to suffer from stagnation by the middle of the decade as cheap Gulf oil dropped fuel prices around the world, but victory in China created a massive new trading partner. Poland and Central Europe had mostly recovered from the war by this point as well, creating an improved market for cheap Eurasian manufactured goods which had long been found in 'Dollar' Stores across Europe. 1962 would also see the first artificial satellite launched from the deserts of Syria, then in 1965 Leonid Popov would be the first man in space. The so called Space Race would become a friendly rivalry between the Moscow (with a bit of assistance from her allies) and the Ottawa-Tokyo team up launching satellites and later astronauts from either Taiwan or Guyanne (the First non-cosmonauts in space were Takao Hoshide and Alexei Sopinka, of Osaka and Winnipeg respectively). Both sides would have their eyes on the Moon as a target, with Moscow claiming a target landing in 1975 and the Pacific Space Association putting their target at 1979. (The Americans would get a man in space in 1969.)
China after the Compact's withdrawal became a confused state. The power vacuum left many State soldiers unsure which side to choose. Most however supported the strong armed government of Socialist Jiang De, having been used to the idea of a strong centralised dictatorship. Enough however chose instead to side with the democractic Republican faction that the Republicans were still a major force. After some scattered fighting the two sides agreed to a ceasefire. Both sides claimed legitimate contol over all China, but also loudly announced a distaste for further 'killing of brothers'. The fact that both governments had accrued a massive debt to either Moscow or Tokyo was also a major factor. Negotations over a future power sharing option would begin in 1965, and . . . continue for a very long time. The negotiations would eventually become a quasi-official internation summit, primarely between the Istanbul Accord and Manilla Community.
1964 would see Australia finally rejoin London's government. 1965 would see something just as important though, as a massive scandal broke out, showing that both the Liberals and Conservatives had been abusing the massive oil funds from the middle east (and elsewhere). Funds officially earmarked towards the development of African territories had frequently been given to local strong men and tribal leaders who'd built themselves grand mansions while doing little to aid the general populace, and to keep the system in place these same strong men had been giving massive political donations back to both parties and been hiring retiring politicians and civil servants to manage their accounts at high salaries. Support for both parties dropped massively, and the 1966 election saw the Labour party win a surprise majority with just over 38% of the vote (lots of minor parties and regional parties had led to major vote splitting). This Labour Party however was not OTL's. Heavily repressed during the red scare of the 1940s and 1950s they'd grown ever more radical in the political fringe (why moderate if Social Democracy was as likely to see you stuck on a witch trial as being an avowed Communist?), and a poorer Britain (no Marshall plan) with worse deindustrialisation (why invest in factories with all that lovely oil money around?) allowed them to rise up with policies that could have been seen as legitimate proposals in the Worker's Federation. The sudden massive lunge to the left led to a number of well to do individuals fleeing abroad, mainly to the Manilla Community or Tunis Pact. An Australian Separatist Party quickly emerged in the far more conservative island continent. However the Labour Party was able to push through a number of their policies, include an NHS, major infrastructure investments actually happening in Africa, and a massively expanded social welfare net.
France went rather worse. The 1967 election finally saw Algeria allowed to particiapte again. With nearly twenty million people it held a little under a third of the voting population of the Federation. Combined with the other non-metropole voters they were able to push the Federal Cooperative Party to first place in the first round of Presidential voting. When the second round came though the previously second place Nationalists skyrocketed to first place, with nearly all of metropolitan France voting for them (including various socialist strongholds despite the Federal Cooperative Party being similarly left leaning). The African voters realised that the French had wanted their resources, but would clamp up into a single bloc if the Africans tried to get anything out of the deal. Protests broke out across the Federation, forcing the French military to be deployed to every corner of the nation. FCP national deputies began a series of protests in Paris and the National Assembly as well. Then the shooting started in Algiers, to no one's great surprise. Then there were bombings (at this point violence was ramping up to the levels OTL's UK saw at the height of the Troubles). The Nationalists overreached and declared the FCP responsible, and (with the support of moderate members of the Socialist Parrty and various further right wing parties) declared the FCP a terrorist organisation. That's when things really spiralled out of control.
FCP party members were arrested across France proper, and in response the party offices in Algiers and other overseas departments were firebombed or otherwise attacked. A state of emergency was declared across the Federation, and soon FCP deparmtental First Ministers began declaring the government in Paris illegitimate. By the end of 1968 almost every departmental government had declared for either the FCP or the hastily unified 'National Socialists' in Paris (a broad tent centrist force that consisted of the Nationalists and about half the Socialist Party, with a further third of Socialists having refused the merger as pointless, and the last 6th declaring their support for the FCP and getting themselves arrested). Laos was the main exception, maintaining studied neutrality while asking Paris to send some troops over 'just in case'. To Paris that meant 'in case the FCP try something', but to Laos it meant 'incase the Vietnamese or Thai try something'.
The Americans and the rest of their Compact were quick to support Paris (for obvious racial reasons). The Central European Neutrality Pact pushed for negotiations, but with a clearly pro-FCP angle (mostly due to Saarland's populace supporting the FCP and the CENP wanting that little country on their side). London muttered incoherently. Tokyo loudly reminding everyone of the Treaty of Versailles' Racial Equality Clause that Paris had supported. In a surprising turn of events Moscow muttered quietly (really wanting to see France proper go communist they didn't want to risk alienating the French people) while the rest of the Comintern openly declared for the FCP. India announced strong support for the ideals of the FCP at the 'Pan-African Congress' first held in 1969 (India was invited as a shining example of decolonialisation and unity despited ethnic diversity that the African States hoped to model themselves after). The Tunis Economic Pact declared their support for 'French Democracy' and refused to go into further details. Canada began efforts to take in the large numbers of refugees they expected to result while trying to pressure Paris into negotiations.
View attachment 287172
While not clear to those ITTL the 1960s is the point at which OTL's technology starts to become noticeably faster progressing.
The 1960s were a revolutionary age (even if the two biggest revolutions sat partially in the 1950s and 1970s).
The Chinese Revolution was the United States' biggest failure. Roughly 2 million troops from the Bogata Compact would serve in the war (roughly 45% from the United States), but the shear scale of China prevented them from making a major difference (poor equipment for Mexican, Colombian, and Venezuelan soldiers reduced their efficiency further. Many Peruvian and Bolivian soldiers would find their pay inconsistent as well, with significant banditry and desertion occuring from all the Compact's minor powers. Combined with low morale for the Compact's Chinese Allies and it was clear the war was a losing proposition. By 1962 Moscow's aid for the Chinese socialists was increasing rapidly, a number of zero interest loans that were mostly used to purchase Eurasian manufactured arms boosted the socialists' airforce massively. The Americans would retain dominance in the skies, but at least now it could be contested. Then 1963 saw the Republicans invade the barely controlled regions in the far south where pro-democracy rebels had near total control. Beginning to panic the Compact unleashed a wave of massacres on disloyal (and suspected to be disloyal) towns and villages across the regions of China they still held. Their effort to stamp out dissent lead to mass dissertion from the Chinese State military, while an outraged Japanese public pushed Tokyo to threaten a blockade of American military ships headed to China. Washington's initial response was rather confrontational.
War panic swept the globe for a few tense months in 1963. Canada began drumming up recruitment, and the experimental new Arrow interceptors were rushed into production (testing was mostly complete, though veranda generals to this day debate over which kinks could have proved fatal for the advanced aircraft if a war had broken out). Meanwhile Moscow declared full support for Japan's proposal, saying that the future of China belonged to the Chinese People. The Americans weighed the odds of their being able to take the Entente and Istanbul Accord at the same time, and felt the war wouldn't go well. Instead the Compact bowed out of the war in an awkward evacuation, swarmed by Chinese State Party members bribing their way onto transport craft to escape the Socialists or Democratic forces' wrath. Roughly 700 000 Chinese State Party members would evacuate with 900 000 Compact forces aboard crowded transport craft and helicopters. A further 70 000 Compact forces were abandoned, mostly Mexican or Colombian soldiers, primarely to make room for Chinese evacuees who had paid large enough bribes (and perhaps 50 000 more deserters who were engaged in banditry or had defected to opposing forces remaind in China as well). Outraged would sweep Mexico and Colombia in the aftermath, protests sweeping both nations were ended in blood with hundreds dead.
The war had also heavily drained the US treasury, and (along with the loss of trade to China and worsening relations with most of the rest of the globe) this lead to a period of severe stagnation, especially with the need to prop up most of the Compact's smaller members with various grants. Washington's ability to respond however was blinded by various companies fudging their numbers to retain lucrative contracts and a massive uptick in corruption. The leading cause of Compact growth and economic stability at the time was Brazil's ongoing industrialisation and the exploitation of minor allies for their natural resources.
Moscow had a much better decade. Their economy was also starting to suffer from stagnation by the middle of the decade as cheap Gulf oil dropped fuel prices around the world, but victory in China created a massive new trading partner. Poland and Central Europe had mostly recovered from the war by this point as well, creating an improved market for cheap Eurasian manufactured goods which had long been found in 'Dollar' Stores across Europe. 1962 would also see the first artificial satellite launched from the deserts of Syria, then in 1965 Leonid Popov would be the first man in space. The so called Space Race would become a friendly rivalry between the Moscow (with a bit of assistance from her allies) and the Ottawa-Tokyo team up launching satellites and later astronauts from either Taiwan or Guyanne (the First non-cosmonauts in space were Takao Hoshide and Alexei Sopinka, of Osaka and Winnipeg respectively). Both sides would have their eyes on the Moon as a target, with Moscow claiming a target landing in 1975 and the Pacific Space Association putting their target at 1979. (The Americans would get a man in space in 1969.)
China after the Compact's withdrawal became a confused state. The power vacuum left many State soldiers unsure which side to choose. Most however supported the strong armed government of Socialist Jiang De, having been used to the idea of a strong centralised dictatorship. Enough however chose instead to side with the democractic Republican faction that the Republicans were still a major force. After some scattered fighting the two sides agreed to a ceasefire. Both sides claimed legitimate contol over all China, but also loudly announced a distaste for further 'killing of brothers'. The fact that both governments had accrued a massive debt to either Moscow or Tokyo was also a major factor. Negotations over a future power sharing option would begin in 1965, and . . . continue for a very long time. The negotiations would eventually become a quasi-official internation summit, primarely between the Istanbul Accord and Manilla Community.
1964 would see Australia finally rejoin London's government. 1965 would see something just as important though, as a massive scandal broke out, showing that both the Liberals and Conservatives had been abusing the massive oil funds from the middle east (and elsewhere). Funds officially earmarked towards the development of African territories had frequently been given to local strong men and tribal leaders who'd built themselves grand mansions while doing little to aid the general populace, and to keep the system in place these same strong men had been giving massive political donations back to both parties and been hiring retiring politicians and civil servants to manage their accounts at high salaries. Support for both parties dropped massively, and the 1966 election saw the Labour party win a surprise majority with just over 38% of the vote (lots of minor parties and regional parties had led to major vote splitting). This Labour Party however was not OTL's. Heavily repressed during the red scare of the 1940s and 1950s they'd grown ever more radical in the political fringe (why moderate if Social Democracy was as likely to see you stuck on a witch trial as being an avowed Communist?), and a poorer Britain (no Marshall plan) with worse deindustrialisation (why invest in factories with all that lovely oil money around?) allowed them to rise up with policies that could have been seen as legitimate proposals in the Worker's Federation. The sudden massive lunge to the left led to a number of well to do individuals fleeing abroad, mainly to the Manilla Community or Tunis Pact. An Australian Separatist Party quickly emerged in the far more conservative island continent. However the Labour Party was able to push through a number of their policies, include an NHS, major infrastructure investments actually happening in Africa, and a massively expanded social welfare net.
France went rather worse. The 1967 election finally saw Algeria allowed to particiapte again. With nearly twenty million people it held a little under a third of the voting population of the Federation. Combined with the other non-metropole voters they were able to push the Federal Cooperative Party to first place in the first round of Presidential voting. When the second round came though the previously second place Nationalists skyrocketed to first place, with nearly all of metropolitan France voting for them (including various socialist strongholds despite the Federal Cooperative Party being similarly left leaning). The African voters realised that the French had wanted their resources, but would clamp up into a single bloc if the Africans tried to get anything out of the deal. Protests broke out across the Federation, forcing the French military to be deployed to every corner of the nation. FCP national deputies began a series of protests in Paris and the National Assembly as well. Then the shooting started in Algiers, to no one's great surprise. Then there were bombings (at this point violence was ramping up to the levels OTL's UK saw at the height of the Troubles). The Nationalists overreached and declared the FCP responsible, and (with the support of moderate members of the Socialist Parrty and various further right wing parties) declared the FCP a terrorist organisation. That's when things really spiralled out of control.
FCP party members were arrested across France proper, and in response the party offices in Algiers and other overseas departments were firebombed or otherwise attacked. A state of emergency was declared across the Federation, and soon FCP deparmtental First Ministers began declaring the government in Paris illegitimate. By the end of 1968 almost every departmental government had declared for either the FCP or the hastily unified 'National Socialists' in Paris (a broad tent centrist force that consisted of the Nationalists and about half the Socialist Party, with a further third of Socialists having refused the merger as pointless, and the last 6th declaring their support for the FCP and getting themselves arrested). Laos was the main exception, maintaining studied neutrality while asking Paris to send some troops over 'just in case'. To Paris that meant 'in case the FCP try something', but to Laos it meant 'incase the Vietnamese or Thai try something'.
The Americans and the rest of their Compact were quick to support Paris (for obvious racial reasons). The Central European Neutrality Pact pushed for negotiations, but with a clearly pro-FCP angle (mostly due to Saarland's populace supporting the FCP and the CENP wanting that little country on their side). London muttered incoherently. Tokyo loudly reminding everyone of the Treaty of Versailles' Racial Equality Clause that Paris had supported. In a surprising turn of events Moscow muttered quietly (really wanting to see France proper go communist they didn't want to risk alienating the French people) while the rest of the Comintern openly declared for the FCP. India announced strong support for the ideals of the FCP at the 'Pan-African Congress' first held in 1969 (India was invited as a shining example of decolonialisation and unity despited ethnic diversity that the African States hoped to model themselves after). The Tunis Economic Pact declared their support for 'French Democracy' and refused to go into further details. Canada began efforts to take in the large numbers of refugees they expected to result while trying to pressure Paris into negotiations.
View attachment 287172
While not clear to those ITTL the 1960s is the point at which OTL's technology starts to become noticeably faster progressing.
It looks like the days of the imperial federations are numbered, the French are divided and and i expect that sooner or later the Australians will agree that they liked it better when they where there own nation and leave. Also it looks like the South/Central American rebellions are popping up faster than they can get put out, sooner or later that region will get really messy, or maybe someone will declare there rebellion communist to get workers federation support?
The Australians and bits around the East Indies have decent odds of divorce London, but most of the rest is okay with the Labour's way of doing things. At least as long as the Gulf oil money keeps flowing.
The rebellions in Latin America are popping up about as fast as the Americans can put them out, so it's not getting worse, but it's not getting any better.
I have noticed in this siries that the Eastern Portugese colony's (East-Timor Macau and the Indian ones) are a grey-brown color. Who controls them?
Or are they an independent post-colonial federation?
Also India is a huuuuuuge, when they properly merge into one nation (assuming there is no crippling civil war in there future) they will be a force to be reckoned with. Although I imagine that that will always be fairly decentralized.
Or are they an independent post-colonial federation?
Also India is a huuuuuuge, when they properly merge into one nation (assuming there is no crippling civil war in there future) they will be a force to be reckoned with. Although I imagine that that will always be fairly decentralized.