Baseball PODs and Scenarios

[AltSptHst]

Very subtle and effective POD for the Black Sox...but not technically possible in 1919. We'd need a radio development POD to make that possible.

Good news is, that's not such a stetch: Have Edison and Westinghouse both jump at wireless transmission, touching off a "Great Radio War" and radio broadcasts of the World Series would be feesible by around 1915/1916 and would probably make the 1919 World Series un-fixable. An audience that big? Stakes that high?

Nice one, Jab.



With pitching, it'd be a dynasty.

Another POD for the Pirates:

In the 4th Round of the 1985 draft, they pick David Justice instead of Robin Vaughn.

On that Top 5 Reasons show, they said that the technology was there earlier to broadcast, but that Guglielmo Marconi, the inventor of Radio, didn't think that commercial broadcasts were viable at the time.

 

[Sigma7]

On that Top 5 Reasons show, they said that the technology was there earlier to broadcast, but that Guglielmo Marconi, the inventor of Radio, didn't think that commercial broadcasts were viable at the time.

There was more to it than that, it was more so that the big guns of the electronics industry didn't think so either, nor were they given much reason to.

However, on July 18, 1907, Lee De Forest made his first ship-to-shore radio transmission.

That transmission took place from a steam yacht called the Thelma but what those transmissions carried are of the utmost of interest: The results of that year's Inter-Lakes Yachting Association Regatta, a sporting event.

Say De Forest takes this a step further and gets permission to set up a transmitter at the Polo Grounds for the infamous "Merkle Game" in 1908, and gives demonstration receivers to George Westinghouse (who lived right there in New York City) or better still, to Thomas Edison (who already knew the market for sports media from the sales of Kinetoscope recordings of such events as prize fights) and hires a dedicated sports writer to give the play-by-play over the air waves to the two kings of the electronics world.

I can't think of anything that could better convince two of the most incredibly shrewd businessmen of the era of the viability of radio baseball broadcasts. All the better if assorted employees are on hand to hear it.

Can you imagine what that would have been like?

"A single by Birdwell and McCormick scores. The Giants two, the Cubs one, is your final score and the field is being mobbed by fans. What a celebration! The fans are elated and mobbing the field- wait...what's...Cubs second baseman Johnny Evers...what is he doing? He...he's struggling with a fan over something...the ball? What- Evers has wrestled the ball away from the fan, I don't know what that accomplishes. Now...he's running over to second base and he touches second base- MERKLE HAS BEEN CALLED OUT AT SECOND! MERKLE HAS BEEN CALLED OUT FOR NOT TOUCHING SECOND BASE! THE RUN WILL NOT COUNT! THE RUN WILL NOT COUNT!!! IT'S ABSOLUTE MADNESS DOWN THERE ON THE FIELD!"

As a riot erupted after Merkle was called out and the crowd learned that the run wouldn't count, and due to the setting sun (and the Cubs having to barricade themselves inside their clubhouse until a police escort of paddy wagons could arrive to get them out of there- true story) the game ended up a tie and set up a one game playoff on October 8th.

I'd bet my house that Edison, Westinghouse or both would be chomping at the bit for another demonstration, one they could pack with people to test the theory that they already know in their hearts is a fact: People are going to pay money for this. Lots of people.

I'd say 1915 would be a very practical year for the first nationwide broadcasts (albeit, probably via transmission relay networks) but the 1915 World Series would definitely be on the radio.

It's not just about the technology, it's about the affordability, and also the ability to build broadcast networks, and the only two men on the planet with the ability to deliver on both fronts at that point in time would be Westinghouse and Edison.

Any game could be the demonstration, but that particular game would be the best bet to sell Edison and/or Westinghouse on commercial radio.



Back to my other POD: Bucs take Justice in the 4th round of the 1985 draft.

Think about what having Justice in the line ups of the 1990, '91 and '92 Pirates could do, particularly in 1990.

Justice caught fire in August and September hitting .315 with 20 homers, 50 RBIs, with a .653 SLG. down the stretch.

More than that, his line against the Reds in the regular season: 12 games, 43 AB, .349, 4 HR, 9 RBI.

Yeah, I know, Bonds and Bonillia's bats disappeared in the NLCS, but what if Justice stayed hot? Could be the difference come October? What if the Bucs managed to win at least one NLCS in those three years and at least one World Series? What impact would that have on the Pirates as a franchise?

Or, what if, just what if, they win all three? If they win in 1990 and 1991, is there a chance Bonillia stays? What about Bonds (doubtful) or Drabek a year later if they threepeat?

All three probably leave. But Justice is locked up through 1995 (presuming they bring him up in 1990 for his first full season like the Braves did) and just how likely are the Bucs to trade Smiley in 1992 if they've got a chance at threepeat or even repeat? (Chance to threepeat is totally possible: They'd have pounded the A's worse than the Reds did and I don't think the Twins make it to seven games against the 1991 Pirates.)

If Pittsburgh wins three straight Series or the first two of a three year run, how is the franchise viewed by 1993?

Bonillia would probably still bolt for the Mets and $5 mil + per year. Bonds and Drabek would both probably still go home to 'Frisco and Houston respectively, but Pittsburgh would almost HAVE to cough up a new stadium much sooner than OTL if they won even ONE Series in those three years, especially if it's the difference between retaining or losing guys like Justice (in this hypothetical), Wakefield or Merced when they reach their walk years. If they can stay competitive even after the departures of Bonds, Bonillia and Drabek, with a new stadium on the way, how attractive do the Pirates look for free agents? They'll probably still have to be relatively frugal until the new stadium's done and they start collecting the revenues from it, but in time, if they stay strong, could they be the type of team that makes the occasional big splash in the free agent market? (Like landing the occasional top tier guy)

 

[Don Draper]

Here's a recent POD:

What if, in 2005, the Red Sox don't trade Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez to the Marlins for Josh Beckett. Beckett was the MVP of the 2007 ALCS against the Indians. The Sox trailed the Tribe 3-1 in that series, and Beckett's pitching performance was key to Boston's comeback, especially in game 5 where he outpitched CC Sabathia.

Without Beckett, maybe the Tribe defeat the Red Sox and go on to beat the Rockies (who were swept by the Sox) in the World Series.

On the other hand, Ramirez would emerge in 2007 as one of the best shortstops in baseball, and Anibal Sanchez would become a strong pitcher in his own right. Maybe those two offset the loss of Beckett and allow the Red Sox to win anyway.

As for the Marlins, without gaining Ramirez, they would probably keep Miguel Cabrera instead of trading him to the Tigers.

 

[AltSptHst]

Ankiel

Here is one that is near and dear to me(I like the Cards):

What if Ankiel doesn't melt down in the playoffs 10 years ago? What kind of career does he have? Do the Cardinals win more than one World Series in the 00's?

 

[mbanghar]

Here's a recent POD:

What if, in 2005, the Red Sox don't trade Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez to the Marlins for Josh Beckett. Beckett was the MVP of the 2007 ALCS against the Indians. The Sox trailed the Tribe 3-1 in that series, and Beckett's pitching performance was key to Boston's comeback, especially in game 5 where he outpitched CC Sabathia.

Without Beckett, maybe the Tribe defeat the Red Sox and go on to beat the Rockies (who were swept by the Sox) in the World Series.

On the other hand, Ramirez would emerge in 2007 as one of the best shortstops in baseball, and Anibal Sanchez would become a strong pitcher in his own right. Maybe those two offset the loss of Beckett and allow the Red Sox to win anyway.

As for the Marlins, without gaining Ramirez, they would probably keep Miguel Cabrera instead of trading him to the Tigers.

I'd argue that idea pretty strongly. Cabrera was going to be more expensive than the Marlins could afford, meaning he was going to cost more than league minimum. Cabrera was going to be dealt by the Marlins before he hit free agency one way or the other.

 

[Dubs]

I'd argue that idea pretty strongly. Cabrera was going to be more expensive than the Marlins could afford, meaning he was going to cost more than league minimum. Cabrera was going to be dealt by the Marlins before he hit free agency one way or the other.

Yeah, typically, the Marlin's don't like to pay exorbitant amount of money to keep their players. They are far more likely to trade away the big named players to get prospects than to resign them to huge contracts. The strategy seems to work considering they already have two World Series championships.

Here is an interesting one: In the year 2000, the Mariners were about to make Alex Rodriguez one of the richest shortstops in history with an 8 year 117 million dollar contract. However, the Texas Rangers proceeded to waste their entire salary on him with a 250 million dollar contract. So my question is what happens to the Mariners in 2001 if the Rangers don't offer A-Rod that ridiculous contract.

 

[AltSptHst]

A-Rod

Yeah, typically, the Marlin's don't like to pay exorbitant amount of money to keep their players. They are far more likely to trade away the big named players to get prospects than to resign them to huge contracts. The strategy seems to work considering they already have two World Series championships.

Here is an interesting one: In the year 2000, the Mariners were about to make Alex Rodriguez one of the richest shortstops in history with an 8 year 117 million dollar contract. However, the Texas Rangers proceeded to waste their entire salary on him with a 250 million dollar contract. So my question is what happens to the Mariners in 2001 if the Rangers don't offer A-Rod that ridiculous contract.

Well, the Mariners went to the ALCS with him in 2000, and won 116 games in 01 without him, although they lost to the Yankees again. Maybe A-Rod helps get them over the Yankee hurdle that year, but they lose to Arizona in the World Series.

As for Texas, maybe they use some of that money on pitching and build a better team as a result.

 

[Don Draper]

I'd argue that idea pretty strongly. Cabrera was going to be more expensive than the Marlins could afford, meaning he was going to cost more than league minimum. Cabrera was going to be dealt by the Marlins before he hit free agency one way or the other.

Yeah, that was a bad call by me. Marlins let Cabrera go, and would probably look to deal Beckett somewhere else.



But my original question remains: Would the Red Sox win the 2007 ALCS (and subsequent World Series) without the efforts of Josh Beckett?

 

[adam888]

1) I think the Browns could have won the pennant in my scenario where Babe Ruth is traded to the White Sox for Joe Jackson and cash rather than to the Yankees for cash only.
2) Probably.
3) The Senators probably win it all in '45 by beating the Cubs in the World Series, but that one could go either way.
4) It probably would have padded his stats more. Dom DiMaggio would have been pretty helpful alongside Ted.
5) I imagine it would have been a big deal if McGraw tried to do that. Commissioner Landis kept the gentlemen's agreement in place, but I can't imagine what he would have done if McGraw had the balls to pull that stunt. The Giants would also have some problems with racism and I'm not sure baseball was fully ready to integrate in the 1920's.

I've always been fascinated with an earlier integration of baseball but would agree the 20's would have been too early for success. John McGraw
might have been tempted to sign Black players to counter the success of the Yankees but the racists during a time of prosperity would very likely found a way to stop it.


A more interesting scenario would have been what if Bill Veeck had bought a team like the Senators in 38 and stocked them with stars like Josh Gibson and Paige who even the most avid of racists admitted was major league quality. During a time with the depression, access to so many quality athletes would be good for business when so many teams were hurting financially.

 

[Sigma7]

Yeah, that was a bad call by me. Marlins let Cabrera go, and would probably look to deal Beckett somewhere else.



But my original question remains: Would the Red Sox win the 2007 ALCS (and subsequent World Series) without the efforts of Josh Beckett?

I doubt they even make the playoffs without Beckett's twenty wins in 2007, and Beckett in the '07 post-season was just filthy. Even if they get to the post season, I doubt the pitcher(s) they use in his place can possibly match his '07 post-season:

4 starts, 4-0, 1.20 ERA in 30 innings, 35 K, .70 WHIP, including a shut out in the ALDS, 2 wins in the ALCS and a total domination of the Rocks in his Series start.

Upside for the Sawks is that they have the sickest offensive player in all of baseball.

Considering the numbers he's put up in that Hitter's Hell they have in Miami, playing 81 games a year in Fenway? For a righthanded bat like his?

As a Yankees fan, I'm glad the Sox traded him. Also glad Loria resigned him.

Speaking of The Fish and their (possibly) criminal owner...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AkB3CDgYd4dxXUy0iWVQtpkRvLYF?slug=jp-marlinsfinancials082810.

How about this for a What If?:

What If John Henry keeps the Marlins instead of selling them to Loria in the first place and applies the same practices he used in Boston to running the Marlins?

 

[cclittle]

1961 : The 22 inning game.

An airplaine scheduled to fly from Richmand Verginia to Detroit Michigan is delayed. Jackie Reed isn't in town and not able to hit his one major league home run in the top of the 22nd. In the 24th Pernal Goldie, filling in for Hall of Famer Al Kaline in right field, hits a home run. Detroit Tigers win. Momentum shifts to Detroit. Wile the New York Yankies win over 100 games they finish second to Detroit. The Tigers take on Cincinnati in the World Series.

 

[AltSptHst]

Milwaukee NHL

Quote"Kinda like: Why was Atlanta given TWO NHL expansion franchises, yet Milwaukee (where women's collegiate hockey games sell out) hasn't even gotten a whiff of an NHL franchise?

Again, I feel a headache coming on, so I'll leave it at that."Quote

Sigma7, from what I heard about Milwaukee, the reason that they didn't get an NHL team before is because of one man: The late "Dollar" Bill Wirtz, former Blackhawks owner. He blocked a team from going to that market.

As for Atlanta, the reason that the Flames were enfranchised in 1972 had to do with the WHA. They wanted a southern NHL presence to offset the Miami team that was supposed to be starting in the new league. However, the Screaming Eagles(that is what they were going to be called) never played a game because the proposed Miami Arena project didn't get off the ground. As for the Thrashers, I don't know why Atlanta got another team.

Okay, back to baseball. Here is a good WI:

This is from the Top 5 Reasons show about The Babe.

What if Kerrigan(his first name escapes me) didn't have to resign as Red Sox manager in 1916 because his wife was pregnant?

According to that show, he was able to control Ruth. If he would have stayed, maybe everything plays out differently.

 

[Workable Goblin]

I have two:

From what I've read, the Pacific Coast League was, in the mid-century, on the verge of becoming a major league by virtue of there being no major league franchises in the West. The rise of television (which disrupted or destroyed the market for minor-league teams, as now people could watch the best players indoors rather than going to see whatever local talent there was in the weather, not to mention that it eventually contributed to the rise of football), combined with several major-league franchises being awarded to the PCL's area of operation caused it to slide back to being just another minor league. So, how could the PCL become a true major league, equal to the National and American leagues? And what effects would that have on baseball?

Also, how could a true "World Series" game/tournament seeing the best teams from all the major professional leagues (in particular the US and Japan) competing against each other be created and established, and what effects would this have?

 

[Don Draper]

A couple more from recent years:

What if Josh Hamilton doesn't have his drug problems and enters the majors with the Tampa Bay Rays?

What if the Seattle Mariners draft Washington native Tim Lincecum in 2006 (they were ahead of the Giants in the draft that year)?

 

[Dubs]

A couple more from recent years:

What if Josh Hamilton doesn't have his drug problems and enters the majors with the Tampa Bay Rays?

What if the Seattle Mariners draft Washington native Tim Lincecum in 2006 (they were ahead of the Giants in the draft that year)?

1. Hamilton becomes a successful power-hitter, but the Rays were in no position in the early 2000s to make any run at the AL East. They will be more successful but won't really contend. this actually may ultimately hurt them as they won't be in a position to obtain some of the prospects that the current club is built on. Hamilton either plays out his contract and moves on in free agency or is traded for prospects.

2. I think that this ultimately puts the Mariners in a better position. With dominant Lincecum to compliment King Felix, the Ms probably wouldn't trade Adam Jones for Erik Bedard. Just imagine a rotation this year with three Cy Young candidates: Tim Lincecum, Felix Hernandez, and Cliff Lee. Jones would probably bolster an offense that has been pathetic this year. The Mariners would probably contend for the AL West this year.

 

[mbanghar]

I've always been fascinated with an earlier integration of baseball but would agree the 20's would have been too early for success. John McGraw
might have been tempted to sign Black players to counter the success of the Yankees but the racists during a time of prosperity would very likely found a way to stop it.


A more interesting scenario would have been what if Bill Veeck had bought a team like the Senators in 38 and stocked them with stars like Josh Gibson and Paige who even the most avid of racists admitted was major league quality. During a time with the depression, access to so many quality athletes would be good for business when so many teams were hurting financially.

This is pretty close to the scenario I've been working on as a timeline.

 

[cclittle]

Tourname Is A Bore

I have two:

From what I've read, the Pacific Coast League was, in the mid-century, on the verge of becoming a major league by virtue of there being no major league franchises in the West. The rise of television (which disrupted or destroyed the market for minor-league teams, as now people could watch the best players indoors rather than going to see whatever local talent there was in the weather, not to mention that it eventually contributed to the rise of football), combined with several major-league franchises being awarded to the PCL's area of operation caused it to slide back to being just another minor league. So, how could the PCL become a true major league, equal to the National and American leagues? And what effects would that have on baseball?

Also, how could a true "World Series" game/tournament seeing the best teams from all the major professional leagues (in particular the US and Japan) competing against each other be created and established, and what effects would this have?

In the first few " Workd Series." The United States won easaly. After a wile the major leagues lost interest. For a wile minor league champions played. Either Cuba or Japan in the 1970's won. this revived interest in the United States.

 

[acgoldis]

Here are a few:

1. Baseball doesn't get its antitrust exemption.

2. Baseball gets a salary cap.

3. No DH in the AL.

4. Jackie Robinson never makes the big leagues.

5. Rose makes the Hall of Fame, setting a possible precedent for the steroid era. The argument is that Ty Cobb was a jerk and still got in.

6. The women's major league does not fold.

7. No wild card in playoffs/three division system. Note that if this is the case the Red Sox don't win in 2004 (I can't remember if they won the division in 2007)

 

[Caspian]

Yeah, typically, the Marlin's don't like to pay exorbitant amount of money to keep their players. They are far more likely to trade away the big named players to get prospects than to resign them to huge contracts. The strategy seems to work considering they already have two World Series championships.

On the contrary, both Marlins' championships predate Loria's ownership of the team and their recent refusal to spend any money at all on payroll. It isn't just that the Marlins refuse to overpay - its that they refuse to pay at all. In 2006, their payroll was $15 million, and about $4 million of that was going to Dontrelle Willis. In 2008, their payroll was $22 million. These are absurdely low payrolls, and the team has only been kept competitive as a result of Larry Beinfest's genius for making great deals, and even then they suffered losing seasons in 2006 and 2007. Before this season, the Commissioner forced the Marlins to actually spend some money on players.

It's all because Loria is a monster who just wants to blackmail Florida and Miami into giving him a stadium.

 

[AltSptHst]

Four teams per league

Here is a playoff WI:

What if Major League Baseball decided to stick with the four teams per league playoff format that they used during the 1981 strike?

They could have had the two best teams in each league that didn't win their division. Plus, they could have changed the League Championship Series to seven games three years before OTL.

There would be some huge butterflies as a result, most namely having to do with the Expos. They would have made postseason play in 87, 92, and 93, and that may have gotten them a new stadium eventually.