"Balkanizing" North America

Eckener

Okay, so what point(s) in time would be best for balkanizing North America?
Here are a few:

-Revolution averted, the colonies become independent dominions during the late 1800s

-Revolution without union: colonies don't stay united past the end of the revolution, say maybe the Articles of Confederation never pass.

-Confederation, not Union: The AoC pass and are in effect, but no constitutional compromises can be reached and eventually the United States break apart into independent States [Turtledove does this in his "Disunited States of America" Crosstime Traffic book]

-Texas isn't admitted into the Union, Mexican War doesn't happen and California goes independent as well

-Civil War: CSA wins, the Union possibly further fragments (independent New England?)

Past those I'm not sure where else you could have a realistic breakup of the USA/North America.

What's the latest that the USA could realistically break apart (and that can be after 1900 if you can think of a legitimate scenario)?

And what scenario would lead to the MOST American states? Is 75 possible? 100? more than that?
 
IchBinDieKaiser

IchBinDieKaiser

Okay, when it comes to the United States, I think the constitutional convention would be the best moment to break up. I'm exploring this idea in my Timeline America the Fallen. Check my sig.
 

Eckener

Yes I know that Canada and Mexico are in NA.

The earlier the PoD, the less likely "Canada" comes into existence. Without the presence of a single, large, unified country to the south, there is not all that much of a need for the British to consolidate the territory of OTL Canada as one single dominion. You'd probably get several "canadian" dominions with any PoD during the 17 or early 1800s. After that I personally don't know.

As for Mexico...I'm just not knowledgable enough. I do know that the demographics in Mexico are different when comparing Northern Mexico to Southern Mexico. But exactly what, and where they'd split, I don't know myself.
 

Eckener

IchBinDieKaiser said:
Okay, when it comes to the United States, I think the constitutional convention would be the best moment to break up. I'm exploring this idea in my Timeline America the Fallen. Check my sig.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's one of the best, just not the most original. That's usually the first thing that comes to mind is the Constitutional Convention.

Your TL sounds interesting. I think I'll go read it. *clicks link*
 

Chairwoman Roxelana

miocid said:
You do know that n america includes canada and mexico right?
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And:

-Antigua and Barbuda
-Bahamas
-Barbados
-Belize
-Costa Rica
-Cuba
-Dominica
-Dominican Republic
-El Salvador
-Grenada
-Guatemala
-Haiti
-Honduras
-Jamaica
-Nicaragua
-Panama
-Saint Kitts and Nevis
-Saint Lucia
-Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
-Trinidad and Tobago
 

Falecius

There was the possibility of a Northern secession during the War of 1812. I hardly see a PoD after the ACW, unless for relatively minor changes (Russian Alaska, separate dominons for Quebec and/or or Atlantic Canada) not affecting the political unity of the mainland 48 states (does Alaska count as mainland? I'm not sure). Mexico might somewhat fall apart as late as the 1930's though that's not very likely.
Maybe a crushing American defeat in some war with a coalition of European powers sometime between 1870-1914? But a balkanization would be very, very unlikely even in this case.
 

Eckener

Falecius said:
There was the possibility of a Northern secession during the War of 1812. I hardly see a PoD after the ACW, unless for relatively minor changes (Russian Alaska, separate dominons for Quebec and/or or Atlantic Canada) not affecting the political unity of the mainland 48 states (does Alaska count as mainland? I'm not sure). Mexico might somewhat fall apart as late as the 1930's though that's not very likely.
Maybe a crushing American defeat in some war with a coalition of European powers sometime between 1870-1914? But a balkanization would be very, very unlikely even in this case.
Click to expand...

I'd forgotten about the crisis at the beginning of the War of 1812. That would be a very probable date. (on a side note, if the Union does not stay together from the start, this would probably be a good date for the first "major" inter-colonial/"American" war. Also, if say the AoC are still in effect by 1812, this would be a good time to have the states break apart).

The 1870-1914 period sounds interesting, but I'm not sure WHAT would cause it. Also at this point, the hard part becomes the fact that an "American" identity exists as an idea of a unified country. Hard to break up and keep broken permanently at this point.
 

Eckener

SavoyTruffle said:
Different colonization leading to a very different North America. Like the French getting OTL New York.
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Hmm....you're talking about a BROAD change to the Exploration Period. Interesting. Though this makes for a vast change in any possible future "revolution" for independence (if there is any), and how the continent would Balkanize would be very different. It's an interesting concept for sure.
 

Eckener

You could really go crazy with that idea too. Spain lands in OTL New England. France in OTL West Indies, Britain in OTL "Southern Colonies" or the Mississippi Delta.....

The only thing then it becomes totally unfamiliar as "America." But it would still be fun to run with as a side project to this.

Another interesting thing to see would be balkanization right around the ACW period. That way, you already have western settlement, and can get independent republics in the interior of North America that are somewhat recognizable to us here in OTL 2011.
 
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