Aragon Makes Spain
- Thread starter NKVD
- Start date
Umm, it wouldn't...
Castile didn't take over Aragon at all. They were in personal union, which means they were ruled by the same person...
Technically, Aragon and Castille were independent untill after the War of the Spanish Succession...
You mean Aragonese armies marching over Castile and placing the monarch of their choice instead of the legal one? That's exactly what happened in OTL 1479. What happened later is that the bigger size, riches and population of Castile placed the centre of the government there.
Portugal makes Spain?
What about the other end- a Portugese-Castilian union? Aragon keeps going on its own, fighting in Italy and the Med, while Portugal and Castile (*Spain) make the original Portugese colonial possessions stick?
What about the other end- a Portugese-Castilian union? Aragon keeps going on its own, fighting in Italy and the Med, while Portugal and Castile (*Spain) make the original Portugese colonial possessions stick?
I PMed Leo about the linguistic effects of such a union a couple of months ago. Here's what he had to say:
Leo Caesius said:
If the Aragonese take Italy OTOH, it's reasonable for them to grow closer in language.
Goldstein
Banned
It could be possible, anyway, to come up with a Spain culturally dominated by Aragon. There's a Spanish AH short story called "Ñ" that plays with this scenario, the main POD being that the Black Plague hits harder in Castille than in the eastern peninsular coast (Contrary to OTL).
This is a TL that I really would like to see!
I think Tocomocho started a TL about it involving a POD with a victorious Juana la Beltraneja against Isabella and Ferdinand, but I can't remember details now. Anyway, if Portugal is united with Castille probably case the exploration of the Americas would be delayed, since the Portuguese were more interested in the African route to India. Maybe we could see Cortez fighting against armies with elephants somewhere Calicut.
They did. This is what has been posted. Clearly truth is stranger than 4Chan.
It is incredible the amount of erroneous cliches that I have seen concerning the "creation" of Spain, and this thread shows some of them. As some of you have posted Spain was created as a personal union of Castille and Aragon. There was no takeover. Castille seemed to prevail because she had more population as she had more surface and it was more densely populated than Aragon (because of the Black Death hitting harder there). If Castille had not joined Aragon, the conquest of parts of Italy would have been harder if not impossible as Aragon profited from castillian troops and commanders.
Culturally Castille and Aragon were quite homogeneous. Castillian was the common language in most of the Kingdom of Aragon and even in Catalonia, Valencia and the Balearics it seems that it was quite widespread and seen as one of the languages of these kingdoms.
When Isabel and Fernando started to use the name "Spain" to designate their dominions the portuguese crown was enraged as they understood that the word Spain/Hispania also belonged to them as they were also part of the Roman Hispania. It seems that portuguese was quite similar to castillian then and most of the bigger differences were adopted in the XVII-XVIII centuries as a way of helping their independence. By the way Portugal never claimed Galicia.
Another cliché I have seen is that of a reformed Navarre more french than spanish. Navarre was one of the hispanic kingdoms that happened to have a french dinasty. Culturally they had nothing to do with France and they were fiercelly catholic.
Euskadi/the Basque Country is a nationalistic invention of the late XIX century. The basque lords looking for autonomy from both the kingdom of Pamplona/Navarre and the kingdom of Leon helped to the independence of Castille and they joined her freely. Basques settled lots of villages in Castille during the reconquista (you can see basque names in villages even near Madrid) and they had lots of privileges. They were proud of being spanish and even considered that they were more true castillians and spanish than the rest.
Culturally Castille and Aragon were quite homogeneous. Castillian was the common language in most of the Kingdom of Aragon and even in Catalonia, Valencia and the Balearics it seems that it was quite widespread and seen as one of the languages of these kingdoms.
When Isabel and Fernando started to use the name "Spain" to designate their dominions the portuguese crown was enraged as they understood that the word Spain/Hispania also belonged to them as they were also part of the Roman Hispania. It seems that portuguese was quite similar to castillian then and most of the bigger differences were adopted in the XVII-XVIII centuries as a way of helping their independence. By the way Portugal never claimed Galicia.
Another cliché I have seen is that of a reformed Navarre more french than spanish. Navarre was one of the hispanic kingdoms that happened to have a french dinasty. Culturally they had nothing to do with France and they were fiercelly catholic.
Euskadi/the Basque Country is a nationalistic invention of the late XIX century. The basque lords looking for autonomy from both the kingdom of Pamplona/Navarre and the kingdom of Leon helped to the independence of Castille and they joined her freely. Basques settled lots of villages in Castille during the reconquista (you can see basque names in villages even near Madrid) and they had lots of privileges. They were proud of being spanish and even considered that they were more true castillians and spanish than the rest.