Arabs win 1967 War with Israel

[Bmao]

In truth, I don't see how the Arabs could beat Israel in that they destroy it and set up a pan-Arab state, but frankly everything that could go possibly wrong for the Arabs during that war did go wrong. What if the Israelis had not launched their pre-emptive attack but instead the Arabs had attacked first? Or rather, could the Arabs have detected the pre-emptive strike and countered it?

Also, what could be the implications of a different outcome of a Arab-Israeli war where the Arab forces are more successful?

 

[corditeman]

The Massacre of Israel

Suggest you look at the situation carefully. Syria, Jordan and Egypt, had been predicted to win. If so, there would have been a massacre of the Israelis. It's an Israeli policy (generated by a famous British General) that to win they would always have to attack. In the Yom Kippur War, the Israelis were at one point barely hours from handing out anti-tank weapons and machine-guns to anybody able to stand and fire them, much as in 1947. Not an Israeli or Jewish myself, but I understand the position.

 

[Keenir]

What if the Israelis had not launched their pre-emptive attack but instead the Arabs had attacked first? Or rather, could the Arabs have detected the pre-emptive strike and countered it?

Also, what could be the implications of a different outcome of a Arab-Israeli war where the Arab forces are more successful?

Institution of a 2-State Solution by force.

(not even the Soviets would want to deal with the consequences of Israel being forced to the sea)

mind you, I think Israel would still fight well, and would inflict large casualties and damage on their opponents.

 

[stevep]

Institution of a 2-State Solution by force.

(not even the Soviets would want to deal with the consequences of Israel being forced to the sea)

mind you, I think Israel would still fight well, and would inflict large casualties and damage on their opponents.

Keenir

The Soviets might not but we're talking about victorious Arab armies here and the Arab states were still formally committed to a one-state solution.

I agree its very unlikely that the Israelis would be defeated given the quality edge at the time and the fact they would be fighting for their lives. Also if it looked like they would be destroyed then quite probably the US would intervene. Hence while a very unpleasant idea I think its pretty unlikely.

Steve

 

[The Kiat]

The thing of it is, that success to the Arabs would be the destruction of Israel. So if the Arab won, that would be bad for the Israelis, and not just the Jewish ones either.

 

[Keenir]

Keenir

The Soviets might not but we're talking about victorious Arab armies here and the Arab states were still formally committed to a one-state solution.

And who were they dependent upon for their arms and political backing? the Soviets.

pretty sure that, faced with the prospect of being b***slapped by the USA & by the USSR, the Arab nations would've backed down...after they did enough to get a place at the negotiating table.

 

[Mirza Khan]

Suggest you look at the situation carefully. Syria, Jordan and Egypt, had been predicted to win. If so, there would have been a massacre of the Israelis. It's an Israeli policy (generated by a famous British General) that to win they would always have to attack. In the Yom Kippur War, the Israelis were at one point barely hours from handing out anti-tank weapons and machine-guns to anybody able to stand and fire them, much as in 1947. Not an Israeli or Jewish myself, but I understand the position.

Because Teh Evol Moosleem A-rabs are all brainwashed bloodthirsty religious fanatics

Seriously-when Nasser talked about "pushing Israel into the sea", he meant militarily defeating them, not massacreing every Israeli. The most likely scenario is the imposition of the 1947 Partition plan, (which, mind you, Israel originally accepted) and right of return for Palestinian refugees. Which, I believe, would have led to a better Middle East (no festering Palestinian-Israeli conflict, no overcrowded refugee camps in Lebanon and Syria, no stateless people, weakened Islamic radicalism, no Hamas)

Now I suppose I'll probably get about a dozen flames for posting this, but I really think a lot of people have gotten some borderline racist ideas about Arabs, Islam, and the Palestinian people, as evidenced by posts like the above.

 

[Mark-ITSOT]

Ballslapped?

 

[RogueBeaver]

You'd need to get rid of Amer, who makes George Custer look like the Duke of Wellington in comparison. He shut down the entire SAM system because he was afraid of being a friendly-fire victim. Anyways, their SA-2s would be useless against treetop-level planes. The minimum SA-2 launch ceiling's 5000 ft. There were actually orders to scramble beforehand, but they were nixed just before the go signal was to be transmitted. Read Michael Oren's book to see just how incompetent the Egyptians were.

 

[Nikephoros]

Because Teh Evol Moosleem A-rabs are all brainwashed bloodthirsty religious fanatics

Yes, because he said that.

 

[Mirza Khan]

Yes, because he said that.

He accused Nasser of planning a genocide against Israelis, an accusation I've heard over and over again but never with any evidence to back it up.

 

[miketr]

Having read a few books on the Arab Israeli wars my thoughts on this that after the 48 war an Arab Victory where they destroy the IDF is ASB land. Its not that the IDF was then or is now that good its that the Arab armies were and still are that bad. Only Jordan falls out side this statement.

Michael

 

[backstab]

He accused Nasser of planning a genocide against Israelis, an accusation I've heard over and over again but never with any evidence to back it up.

What do you think that they would do ? shake their hands and leave it at that. What the Russians did to the German Civilians at the end of WW2 would have been tame compared to what would have happened. Of course it would not have been policy or even planned but when you get ill disciplined troops like them (Not the Jordanians) then payback would have been a bitch.

 

[Mirza Khan]

What do you think that they would do ? shake their hands and leave it at that. What the Russians did to the German Civilians at the end of WW2 would have been tame compared to what would have happened. Of course it would not have been policy or even planned but when you get ill disciplined troops like them (Not the Jordanians) then payback would have been a bitch.

Your evidence for this? And no, Nasser and his troops being Evol Moosleem A-rabs is not evidence.

I know you've been bought up to think the Arab-Israeli conflict was all about anti-Semetic Arabs wanting to destroy Israel for no particular reason-I was too, and believed it for a long time. But talk to some actual Palestinians, and read about the conflict with an open mind, and you find a whole different story. Israel forced an entire people off their land, waged four wars of aggression, maintained an occupation over Palestine for 40 years which routinely violates the political and personal rights of the people in the occupied territories, stolen land to build settlements in violation of international law, killed many times more Palestinian civilians than it has lost (I'm not excusing Hamas terrorism, but its important to remember that the Palestinian civilian death toll since 2001 is at least three times higher than Israel's-look it up), used weapons such as white phosphorus that violate international law...need I go on?

 

[backstab]

Your evidence for this? And no, Nasser and his troops being Evol Moosleem A-rabs is not evidence.

I know you've been bought up to think the Arab-Israeli conflict was all about anti-Semetic Arabs wanting to destroy Israel for no particular reason-I was too, and believed it for a long time. But talk to some actual Palestinians, and read about the conflict with an open mind, and you find a whole different story. Israel forced an entire people off their land, waged four wars of aggression, maintained an occupation over Palestine for 40 years which routinely violates the political and personal rights of the people in the occupied territories, stolen land to build settlements in violation of international law, killed many times more Palestinian civilians than it has lost (I'm not excusing Hamas terrorism, but its important to remember that the Palestinian civilian death toll since 2001 is at least three times higher than Israel's-look it up), used weapons such as white phosphorus that violate international law...need I go on?

Are you antisemitic ? It seems like it. What about the cowardly car bombs , indescriminate rocket attacks ... maybe if these idiots lay off then the Israeli Government would back down. Yes, I have met my share of Palestinians and they tell a different story.

My point is not about Arabs vs Jews and their Religious differences but on of revenge for perceived (or not) wrongs. Much like what happened in Yugoslavia.

 

[Mirza Khan]

Are you antisemitic ? It seems like it. What about the cowardly car bombs , indescriminate rocket attacks ... maybe if these idiots lay off then the Israeli Government would back down. Yes, I have met my share of Palestinians and they tell a different story.

My point is not about Arabs vs Jews and their Religious differences but on of revenge for perceived (or not) wrongs. Much like what happened in Yugoslavia.

How, exactly, did you come to the conclusion that I am anti-Semetic? I opposed Israel's policies towards the Palestinians and Arabs in general, but I never said anything at all about the Jewish religion or the Jewish people, both of which I have great respect for.

Perhaps you could address my arguments instead of resorting to name calling. And again, where's your evidence about the supposed Arab policy to kill all Israelis?

 

[backstab]

How, exactly, did you come to the conclusion that I am anti-Semetic? I opposed Israel's policies towards the Palestinians and Arabs in general, but I never said anything at all about the Jewish religion or the Jewish people, both of which I have great respect for.

Perhaps you could address my arguments instead of resorting to name calling. And again, where's your evidence about the supposed Arab policy to kill all Israelis?

Did I say it would have been Policy ? No I said it would have been out of revenge.. How about reading my post first !

What do you think that they would do ? shake their hands and leave it at that. What the Russians did to the German Civilians at the end of WW2 would have been tame compared to what would have happened. Of course it would not have been policy or even planned but when you get ill disciplined troops like them (Not the Jordanians) then payback would have been a bitch

 

[Mirza Khan]

Did I say it would have been Policy ? No I said it would have been out of revenge.. How about reading my post first !

Really, now. How do you know the Arabs would have spontaniously massacred the Israeli population? Because their Arabs?

Come back with some evidence please. Preferably, evidence which does not involve ethnic stereotyping of the worst kind.

 

[MacCaulay]

Having read a few books on the Arab Israeli wars my thoughts on this that after the 48 war an Arab Victory where they destroy the IDF is ASB land. Its not that the IDF was then or is now that good its that the Arab armies were and still are that bad. Only Jordan falls out side this statement.

Michael

The IDF in 1967 was a professional military, and already well on the way to becoming one of the best.

In Six Days of War, an interviewed Egyptian officer says: "We were trained for parade marches, not field marches. What they [the Israelis] did to us in the Sinai was beyond our comprehension and ability to counter."

Your evidence for this? And no, Nasser and his troops being Evol Moosleem A-rabs is not evidence.

...Israel forced an entire people off their land...

I think you just named all the evidence...it's not going to matter what Nasser or Hussein think about it when some Palestinians decide to go back to their old homes and kick out whoever's in them with guns and clubs.

Why shouldn't they? They've been living in camps for years and the Israelis are living in their old neighbourhoods. In every other place in the world where forced movements of people have occurred and then been undone, violence has occurred. I'm not saying they've got the right, but they've certainly got to feel like they have a reason.

 

[backstab]

Really, now. How do you know the Arabs would have spontaniously massacred the Israeli population? Because their Arabs?

Come back with some evidence please. Preferably, evidence which does not involve ethnic stereotyping of the worst kind.

What evidence is there that they would not knock off a few here and there ? My evidence is Russian Troops during WW2 ... revenge makes you do some nasty things.