An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
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Well advanced or not without antibiotics there only so much you can do about the plague.. especially in the cities
pls don't ban me
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well, considering that the arabs are still in the period were they are good in science and medicine, maybe even better than Latins, i can see there is a shared knowledge on basic treatment for some illnesses so there will be indeed a lot of deaths but no on the same west-European ratio.
Could be when it comes to the duration of his reign/epic journey. A bit less when it comes to the recursive nature of Comets? (to counter, the repetition may be about Alexander the Great himself,... Somehow I don't think that's him.
I thought Constantinople went through multiple rounds of depopulation (whether through deaths or population moves) and it sat around the 250K mark.
I would like the likes of Paris & Milan would be rather comparable, with the likes of Lisbon, London etc sitting in the tier under (but not too far off).
If the Triunes can field an army close to 200K I'd think they'd be sufficiently urbanised to get hit hard by this round of plague, if not more so than the Romans given their proximity to the source.
Edit: Source for the 200K
I would like the likes of Paris & Milan would be rather comparable, with the likes of Lisbon, London etc sitting in the tier under (but not too far off).
If the Triunes can field an army close to 200K I'd think they'd be sufficiently urbanised to get hit hard by this round of plague, if not more so than the Romans given their proximity to the source.
Edit: Source for the 200K
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Didn't Constantinople and alot of urban cities got emptied to reclaim or claim territory over the east? Then they wouldn't be hit as hard, even if it was hard. Now on western europe which was practically untouched by war then the plague will spread more.
I would imagine constantinople at least is decently hygienic by this point. I would hope they have learnt trough time
Vince
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Also if Constantinople is one of the last places the plague hits they should be aware of it coming and be able to enact some measures to prevent the worst of it from hitting them.
I wonder if the anti-Iskander crowd in Persia will look at the Black death as a sign from God that the Christians (Romans) are getting what they deserve and painting with the same brush, his Roman upbringing, Iskander is marked by that.
I think anyone hoping that the black death is going to be relatively light is deluding themselves. Rome is the most urban most interconnected polity on the planet outside of China; it is what has allowed them to punch above what raw population numbers would suggest they are able; but that same urbanization and that same interconnectedness is going to mean the black death hammers them at least as hard as Western Europe even with the forewarning coming their way. Constantinople, Antioch, Smyrna, Thessaloniki, Alexandria and a dozen smaller cities all exist to trade with each other and the world. They can't quarantine themselves because they rely on the outside world for food, supplies, jobs, and their entire economic well-being.
I'm sure there will be Roman communities in the Anatolian highlands that are able to quarantine themselves and ride this out with minimal losses but I would put Ancyra at the top end of size that is going to pull it off. Anything on the coast is likely screwed as well just because they build themselves on trade with the outside world. I am sure that lots of towns and cities in Rome will enact quarantine measure, isolate outsiders, and make the public bath houses free to encourage good hygiene. I am also sure that in the vast majority of these towns and cities ultimately all of this will fail. People in this time just don't have enough information on disease vectors and proper isolation/quarantine protocols to be able to effectively fight the plague beyond the occasional lucky town/area that just flips a coin on heads 20 times in a row.
The good news for Rhomania is that Western Europe will be hit just as hard and so no one is going to be in any shape to do any major adventures for the next decade or two. Hell this could be one of the things that allows RITE to really consolidate their hold since I don't see any major expeditions being launched from Europe for the foreseeable future. The other good piece of news is that really a lot of these people were probably going to die anyways as a result of intermittent famines that will plague the region for the next couple decades. There is something to be said for all of the dying the happen in a year or two and stabilize at a lower level rather than lose a couple percent every year.
The other bit of good news is that a period of de-urbanization might actually work out well for Rhomania in the medium to long term. Until the mid 20th century cities are more or less death traps and generally have negative natural population growth. They rely entirely on immigration from the countryside to sustain themselves. A Rhomania that sees it's urban population got from 1/5 to 1/7 for a generation or two may end up with a higher population at the end than if it had never happened without losing so much population that the dynamism and cosmopolitan nature of the cities is lost.
I'm sure there will be Roman communities in the Anatolian highlands that are able to quarantine themselves and ride this out with minimal losses but I would put Ancyra at the top end of size that is going to pull it off. Anything on the coast is likely screwed as well just because they build themselves on trade with the outside world. I am sure that lots of towns and cities in Rome will enact quarantine measure, isolate outsiders, and make the public bath houses free to encourage good hygiene. I am also sure that in the vast majority of these towns and cities ultimately all of this will fail. People in this time just don't have enough information on disease vectors and proper isolation/quarantine protocols to be able to effectively fight the plague beyond the occasional lucky town/area that just flips a coin on heads 20 times in a row.
The good news for Rhomania is that Western Europe will be hit just as hard and so no one is going to be in any shape to do any major adventures for the next decade or two. Hell this could be one of the things that allows RITE to really consolidate their hold since I don't see any major expeditions being launched from Europe for the foreseeable future. The other good piece of news is that really a lot of these people were probably going to die anyways as a result of intermittent famines that will plague the region for the next couple decades. There is something to be said for all of the dying the happen in a year or two and stabilize at a lower level rather than lose a couple percent every year.
The other bit of good news is that a period of de-urbanization might actually work out well for Rhomania in the medium to long term. Until the mid 20th century cities are more or less death traps and generally have negative natural population growth. They rely entirely on immigration from the countryside to sustain themselves. A Rhomania that sees it's urban population got from 1/5 to 1/7 for a generation or two may end up with a higher population at the end than if it had never happened without losing so much population that the dynamism and cosmopolitan nature of the cities is lost.
If memory serves me correctly, there was a correlation done at the time of Helena between rats and plague. While the chihuahua is not so popular, you could see rat hunting breeds become so. The Jack Russel terrier comes to mind, whippets as well make great rat hunters too.
I'm a bit surprised that the Ravens went down so easily, since I thought they were going to be more of a thorn in Philip's backside as time went on, but 10 years really isn't bad for what was essentially a peasant rebellion. Plus, their names will surely live on in the public consciousness thanks to the printing press. This could prove especially useful when socialist theories start to formulate as a way to oppose the aristocracy and the rich.
Philip has won in the short term with the fall of the Ravens, but I think his failure to address the plague or pacify the growing opposition movement with Elisabeth will surely be his downfall. Once the Triunes inevitably start to break apart, his support will be weakened and that is when the House of Wittelsbach will strike.
The bubonic plague does suck for everyone involved in Europe, but I think this will be especially hit hard in Germany, Lotharingia, and France, where the overall devastation and the colder climate could mean a much higher causality count compared to the rest of Europe. It will surely be a factor in the Triunes' downfall, since now the French are suffering, with the King unable to stop the plague from ravaging the Triple Monarchy. Once Henri dies, powder kegs are sure to explode, perhaps with greater ferocity than ever.
I don't really see why Rhomania is going to end up being better equipped at treating the plague than some other state like Spain or Arles, since higher urbanization/population on top of the lack of information surrounding germ theory and antibiotics will leave them just as vulnerable to the plague as any other European country. Medicine might be marginally better at treating the plague but we're still dealing with plague doctors and bloodletting here.
Plus, comets, whenever they arrive, shine brightly before they inevitably turn dark.
Philip has won in the short term with the fall of the Ravens, but I think his failure to address the plague or pacify the growing opposition movement with Elisabeth will surely be his downfall. Once the Triunes inevitably start to break apart, his support will be weakened and that is when the House of Wittelsbach will strike.
The bubonic plague does suck for everyone involved in Europe, but I think this will be especially hit hard in Germany, Lotharingia, and France, where the overall devastation and the colder climate could mean a much higher causality count compared to the rest of Europe. It will surely be a factor in the Triunes' downfall, since now the French are suffering, with the King unable to stop the plague from ravaging the Triple Monarchy. Once Henri dies, powder kegs are sure to explode, perhaps with greater ferocity than ever.
I don't really see why Rhomania is going to end up being better equipped at treating the plague than some other state like Spain or Arles, since higher urbanization/population on top of the lack of information surrounding germ theory and antibiotics will leave them just as vulnerable to the plague as any other European country. Medicine might be marginally better at treating the plague but we're still dealing with plague doctors and bloodletting here.
No, but I think it's a good guess that it is Odysseus. I mean, comet arrivals are usually associated with doom and world-altering change (according to Wikipedia), so that fits him REALLY well with the War of Wrath and the Great Crime.
Plus, comets, whenever they arrive, shine brightly before they inevitably turn dark.
Loving these German updates and seeing how things conclude up there. It's really hard to imagine Phillip being in a good position to put down Elizabeth in the eyes of anyone right now. His forces must be worn thin after all this campaigning and a plague outbreak starting within his war camp. Not that nationalism is a huge factor at this point, but there must be plenty of people upset at him selling out German lands to the Triunes and then marching a Triune army through German lands to murder the peasants he couldn't kill on his own.
Can't wait to see the conclusion. And for Rhomania to make it past the lean years of cold, hunger, and disease and begin their recovery.
Can't wait to see the conclusion. And for Rhomania to make it past the lean years of cold, hunger, and disease and begin their recovery.
the problem with the triunes the way i see it is, their own people is already sick of the bs that is happening, so there's a huge change a civil war with happen
I've made this analogy before but to me Henri is just like a good heel in wrestling - a guy you just love to hate.
I think the problem most on the board have with the Triunes is Henri's seeming avoidance of karma. He egged on the war between the HRE and Rhomania that devastated Rhomania and the HRE, while committing little more than a few cannons to the effort. Then backstabbed his ally to enlarge his own kingdom, but is still viewed more positively by Germans than the Romans are it seems. At the same time his army killed a Spanish prince which resulted in Spain declaring war on Rhomania and devastating RITE.
The story is mostly from the Roman perspective and so we see a nation under siege and forgive many of their missteps because they are in a constant state of just trying to survive. Meanwhile the Triunes come across as opportunistic bad faith actors who never seem to suffer for it. I'm not saying either of these characterizations is right. It's just the way it's viewed by many. And so brilliant as he might be, people want to see Henri's empire tear itself apart when he dies, because millions have died around the world for his political genius.
The story is mostly from the Roman perspective and so we see a nation under siege and forgive many of their missteps because they are in a constant state of just trying to survive. Meanwhile the Triunes come across as opportunistic bad faith actors who never seem to suffer for it. I'm not saying either of these characterizations is right. It's just the way it's viewed by many. And so brilliant as he might be, people want to see Henri's empire tear itself apart when he dies, because millions have died around the world for his political genius.
Well, shits gonna be fun for the Triunes for the next century once Henri dies. I can’t wait for that shitshow to utterly ruin them.