An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

Emilia-Romagna
Emilia-Romagna's
I believe that only the Romagna proper (cities like Ravenna and Rimini and their environs), a small portion of the modern day Italian administrative region of Emilia-Romagna were allowed independence from Lombardia, so no Parma, no Bologna, no Modena and no Piacenza for it.

I wonder how having an orthodox king will go over with the population of the region
He or his heirs may very well convert to Avignon Catholicism like how Otto I's heirs were raised Orthodox.

Despotates are nice, but I'd rather have full control of Andrean empire. Commonwealth is better that loosing everything, but in the end USA, USSR and China are global powers today and recently, not British Empire/Commonwealth.
IMO, basing your vision of commonwealth upon a sole example of the modern day Commonwealth is insufficient considering B444 has mentioned his vision of a federalized Empire. Even the European Union, which is a less integrated organization compared to a federal state has proved that it is a power in its own right.
 
IMO, basing your vision of commonwealth upon a sole example of the modern day Commonwealth is insufficient considering B444 has mentioned his vision of a federalized Empire. Even the European Union, which is a less integrated organization compared to a federal state has proved that it is a power in its own right.
I definitely hope Rome and despotates end up as a some sort of federalized empire,

But I'm basing my vision on OTL British Commonwealth because that's how it works now, despotates function like dominions. They might end up in a closer federation later, but that is to be seen.
 
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While it doesn't look as neat the settlement in Italy will be extremely beneficial to Rome. They now have strongly protected buffer states that guarantees there will be no major threat to Roman Italy for centuries aside from a Sicilian rebellion. They now have buffers on all sides from the Latins which means the end of the long existential threat from barbarians that has existed since the end of Pax Romana. Now they can put all of their effort on expanding into the east and fortifying their colonies without the west breathing down their back. If only they could secure a powerful mutually protected buffer in the east the empire would not have to worry about constantly being under siege and be able to fully commit to growing Rhomania in the east.

Perhaps Iskander and Ody can agree to establish an independent southern Mesopotamia to ensure the peace between the two empires although i can't see the Ottomans ever forgetting about reclaiming the region
 
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Cryostorm

Monthly Donor
While it doesn't look as neat the settlement in Italy will be extremely beneficial to Rome. They now have strongly protected buffer states that guarantees there will be no major threat to Roman Italy for centuries aside from a Sicilian rebellion. They now have buffers on all sides from the Latins which means the end of the long existential threat from barbarians that has existed since the end of Pax Romana. Now they can put all of their effort on expanding into the east and fortifying their colonies without the west breathing down their back. If only they could secure a powerful mutually protected buffer in the east the empire would not have to worry about constantly being under siege and be able to fully commit to growing Rhomania in the east
If anything this might end up an own goal by Spain and the Triunes. By limiting Rhomania's involvement in Europe they have guaranteed that more and more focus will be brought to bear on Island Asia. There might be many a future historian that will point to this as the moment Rhomania was destined to dominate the region as the heartland became secure on all sides.
 

Cryostorm

Monthly Donor
Look to the West: The Word of Peace



The ugly aspect of this concession is that the commoners of Genoa who’d sided with the Romans are not allowed to leave. The terms are that the Roman garrison will simply vacate their men and material but everything else must remain. Demetrios, recognizing that Genoa is the trigger issue and that here he must give way utterly, accepts the demands, although personally reluctant since he can see what will come. The Genoese commoners are completely exposed to the wrath of the Genoese grandees-Lisbon branch who take charge of the city. They conduct an utterly ruthless and bloody reign of terror, slaughtering anyone who they suspect of having harmed their relations or collaborated with the Romans.


Another effect is that shortly after the affair, several up-and-coming officials eager to make a name for themselves publish an influential report. In it they argue strenuously against the idea of any territorial expansion for the Imperial heartland, with the exception of minor (and they stress minor) adjustments for fortress holdings to lock down Northern Mesopotamia.

The crux of their argument is that “a two-front war is an inevitability; the only question is details, but not concept. This cannot be avoided, only managed. The frontiers must be placed in positions where it can be reasonably be expected that they can be held during a two-front war.” They assert that the imperial heartland frontiers are largely at those positions, with further conquests only weakening, not strengthening border security. Further extensions of the border simultaneously make it harder for the military to defend (longer logistics) and easier for enemies to attack (correspondingly shorter logistics). This has a double effect, in that by making the frontier easier to attack, it will also make it more likely to be attacked, which will encourage other frontiers to be attacked by opportunists, and so on.

The report is done in tandem with a major War Room study which sets up the following strategy game. There are three teams, a Roman team that in this scenario is assumed to control all of Italy, with 180,000 men, including 30,000 Sicilians and 30,000 Egyptians. It is opposed by an Ottoman team with 80,000 men and a Latin team of 120,000 men. The game is run 5 times, the members of the teams rotating.

In every single game, the Roman team loses Italy. If the Romans put enough troops into Italy to reliably defend it against the Latins, the Ottomans aren’t effectively opposed, eventually chew through the fortress belt, and start running wild in Asia until troops are rushed from Italy to stop them, at which point the Italian front collapses. If the Romans put enough troops in Asia to keep the Ottomans from making any headway in the first place, the outnumbered Italian front gets overrun.

Efforts to crush one front and then rush reinforcements to the other are of no help. Sealift limitations mean that reinforcements have to be fed in small enough amounts that the defenders just rip them up piecemeal. In Game 4, the Roman team decisively crushes the Latin team with overwhelming force, but that took time and resources away from Asia, allowing the Ottoman team to really run wild. By the time the Latins are defeated, the Ottomans are besieging Smyrna and Nicaea.

The Romans land a max sealift effort of troops from Italy in western Anatolia, but the Ottomans obliterate it before the second wave arrives. Not only does this eliminate the Roman numerical advantage, it frees the Ottomans to wipe up the rest of Anatolia. The Roman army is then massed at Constantinople to keep it from being defeated in detail, but the concentration means the only offensive option is an assault across the Bosporus in the teeth of Ottoman defenses. This is a debacle, the Ottomans routing the Romans, seizing their landing craft, and sweeping across the Bosporus themselves to take Constantinople.

This is just a war game, not a prognostication, and some have criticized the setup. The first to do so was the War Room itself, which argued that the scenario was unfairly generous to the Roman team. Notably both Italy and Sicily are presumed to be loyal in the scenario and the Latin team is barred from operating outside of Italy. The War Room considers both criteria to be extremely unrealistic.

The contrast between the game results and the recent war are heavily analyzed in the game report. It is noted that in the war, the Lombards’ supply lines were long and exposed to seaborne raids. With the cockpit of conflict placed in northern Italy, that disadvantage vanished. Furthermore during the war the enemy was the Lombards, while in the games the Latins were stand-ins for the Arletians, League, and Spanish, and while the scenario did not game this, the Latin category could include the Triunes as well. The latter grouping was vastly more dangerous than the former. Like the officials, the War Room considers greatly expanded borders, in the context of a two-front (or worse) war, to be a liability, not a benefit.

For the Genoan commoners do the Carthaginians try to get allowance to bring immigrants from Genoa, or do so without permission? I imagine they, if no one else, would love to have additional people, even if they are Catholic, since they are still Christian and likely to be loyal against the Marinids and other groups in North Africa.

As for the last part, and the war game, it makes perfect sense. Italy's defensibility along the Alps only really works so long as Italy is loyal and an integrated part of Rhomania, and therefore part of the heartland in truth. At this point this would be near impossible to do in Lombardy outside of the edges, like the mainland around Venice, as Lombardy is wealthy, populated, and well educated with its own literary and educational systems. With a hostile Lombardy it is just a better idea to make it a strong, but not too strong, middle power that would fight other Latins for their independence and making any invasion occur down and around the lower Italian Peninsula and island of Sicily, making any attack on Rhomania occur on the end of a long, and likely fragile, seaborn supply chain.
 
It's quite satisfying to see that the (former) Roman Catholic church that gave Rhomania so much strife is now relegated only to the Hre. I'm curious to see what power the meinz papacy will have over the hre or if it will just become a figurehead that supports the current emperor
 
It's quite satisfying to see that the (former) Roman Catholic church that gave Rhomania so much strife is now relegated only to the Hre. I'm curious to see what power the meinz papacy will have over the hre or if it will just become a figurehead that supports the current emperor
Germano-Bohemian Caesaropapism? Strudel-ly Delicious.
 
But I'm basing my vision on OTL British Commonwealth because that's how it works now, despotates function like dominions.
They may seem similar, but despotates have legal obligations to the empire encoded down in writing, while the Commonwealth Dominions don't .

It's quite satisfying to see that the (former) Roman Catholic church that gave Rhomania so much strife is now relegated only to the Hre. I'm curious to see what power the meinz papacy will have over the hre or if it will just become a figurehead that supports the current emperor
If Henry has managed to subjugate Mainz, I wonder whether Bohmanism and Catholicism may see a forceful end to their schism (at least partially or an official special recognition for Henry as Vicegerent of God in his Empire).
 
Is there a chance for scotland to become part of the Anglo-French Union?
I feel that if they did, it would be a beginning of the split. Scotland isn't much by itself, but the British Isles as a whole, well we've seen what they could get up to, and that's with the English running roughshod. This would be one where the Irish are equals, and really to draw the Scots in who are not quite content with the rest of the EAN, Henri would try to convince(re:bribe) them to join instead of invade. A British Isles of equals? France could sink like Ys as far as the Isles would be concerned.
 
They may seem similar, but despotates have legal obligations to the empire encoded down in writing, while the Commonwealth Dominions don't .
Today they don't. But before Statute of Westminster British Parliament could enact laws for the dominions and british declaration of war was valid was dominions without their separate declaration. Dominions were essentially part of UK (or British Crown) as self governing colonies, not separate countries. Some of them (I think Australia) even issued solely british passports until sixties.

As far as I remember despotates are not under similar jurisdiction of Roman law - essentially they are sovereign countries with varying levels of contractual obligations to Roman Empire. Legally I don't think there is any difference between them and any other state that Rome would force to sign similar treaties.
 
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I feel that if they did, it would be a beginning of the split. Scotland isn't much by itself, but the British Isles as a whole, well we've seen what they could get up to, and that's with the English running roughshod. This would be one where the Irish are equals, and really to draw the Scots in who are not quite content with the rest of the EAN, Henri would try to convince(re:bribe) them to join instead of invade. A British Isles of equals? France could sink like Ys as far as the Isles would be concerned.
:(
 
I dont know if the entirety of England will permanently leave the Triune empire even if all of GB is under their control. I can see England breaking away and then the south would eventually be reunited by an invasion as London is a crucial port. I can't imagine the locals would be very opposed to being under french control once again as the south is quite fond of their union with France which has brought untold wealth to the region. I think the growing affinity between Scottland and Northern england being able to fend of the Triunes and establish a state in the north. Albion would be a nice name for it if it actually happens
 
I dont know if the entirety of England will permanently leave the Triune empire even if all of GB is under their control. I can see England breaking away and then the south would eventually be reunited by an invasion as London is a crucial port. I can't imagine the locals would be very opposed to being under french control once again as the south is quite fond of their union with France which has brought untold wealth to the region. I think the growing affinity between Scottland and Northern england being able to fend of the Triunes and establish a state in the north. Albion would be a nice name for it if it actually happens
Unlikely that the entirety of England will leave the Triunes, since you know...the Triple Monarchy was started by England winning the ATL 100 Years' War, claiming the Kingdom of France for itself. Their power base is probably is still within Southern England/Northern France with London, King's Harbour, Calais, and other port cities being the main focal point of the empire and the culture might be fully Anglo-French at this point due to centuries of cultural mixing between the three kingdoms. With their amazing navy and power projection, there's just simply no way that the Triple Monarchy would allow England or Northumbria to break right now, especially regions so close to King's Harbour. It's probably easier to annex Scotland into the UK than it is for Northumbria or England to leave.

Still, Northumbria becoming part of Scotland could be interesting, but it'd require a pretty brutal war between the Triunes and Norway-Scotland, and I don't even know if Northumbrians even want independence or annexation, despite them being less "frenchified". Maybe in the future, with the Age of Nationalism that could be the case but I don't know if the UK could break apart, especially when it's been hinted that it will be a very strong united polity in the far future.
 
Unlikely that the entirety of England will leave the Triunes, since you know...the Triple Monarchy was started by England winning the ATL 100 Years' War, claiming the Kingdom of France for itself. Their power base is probably is still within Southern England/Northern France with London, King's Harbour, Calais, and other port cities being the main focal point of the empire and the culture might be fully Anglo-French at this point due to centuries of cultural mixing between the three kingdoms. With their amazing navy and power projection, there's just simply no way that the Triple Monarchy would allow England or Northumbria to break right now, especially regions so close to King's Harbour. It's probably easier to annex Scotland into the UK than it is for Northumbria or England to leave.

Still, Northumbria becoming part of Scotland could be interesting, but it'd require a pretty brutal war between the Triunes and Norway-Scotland, and I don't even know if Northumbrians even want independence or annexation, despite them being less "frenchified". Maybe in the future, with the Age of Nationalism that could be the case but I don't know if the UK could break apart, especially when it's been hinted that it will be a very strong united polity in the far future.
What I imagine happening is a succession Crisis down the Road where one king takes control over mainland europe and another takes control of the British Isles leaving the Triune domain broken for a few decades and then would mostly be reunited by the claimant based in France but who knows what will happen or if those lucky bastards will ever face a serious crisis like that
 
What I imagine happening is a succession Crisis down the Road where one king takes control over mainland europe and another takes control of the British Isles leaving the Triune domain broken for a few decades and then would mostly be reunited by the claimant based in France but who knows what will happen or if those lucky bastards will ever face a serious crisis like that
It's certainly possible for a succession crisis to happen if Louis fails to produce kids (I think he will turn out far worse than Henri due to how he treats the kid, which could have some drastic effects on the UK as a whole, although how that will manifest is a mystery). Either that or a war over Northumbrian Independence could be the only things that really break the Triunes right now, but that's going to depend on how B444 wants the Triunes to turn out in the upcoming centuries.

The Triunes breaking apart could turn out to be really ugly, both for superficial map reasons (The British Isles end up to be really ugly with Scotland, Northumbria, England, Wales, and etc. along with France cut in half and Lotharingia) and just for the sheer political instability and loss of life that such an act causes. Then again, going in the other direction with a UK absorbing all of Britain, France, and Lotharingia would also be pushing the state to ludicrous levels of power that no Western European state would allow.

The Triunes definitely are riding high now, and therefore they're bound to have some kind of crisis that could bite them in the butt in the near future (Going to be looking intently at how Louis rules as once Henri dies) because no Golden Age lasts forever.
 
Then again, going in the other direction with a UK absorbing all of Britain, France, and Lotharingia would also be pushing the state to ludicrous levels of power that no Western European state would allow.
Who's gonna stop them if they try?
The Rhomans are A - far away and B - taking a step back from European affairs and C - were basically told by all of Western Europe "stay away from our business" anyway.
The Germans got their teeth kicked in when the Triunes invaded a few years ago. They're barely hanging on by a thread and we still don't know how destabilizing the Raven's Rebellion will be when it hits.
The Spanish? They also tried fighting the Triunes and their crown prince ended up dead.
Arles? Too small a population and too large a shared border. Plus they alienated Rhomania, one of the only powers who could theoretically stand up to the Triunes.
EOATH? Too small a population base to effectively do anything on their own.
Poland, Hungary, Prussia all don't really care as they're pretty far away.
The Russians aren't unified (plus, again, that's a problem all the way across the continent).

The Triunes are easily the top dog in Europe. They're Ancien Regime France on steroids.
 

Cryostorm

Monthly Donor
Who's gonna stop them if they try?
The Rhomans are A - far away and B - taking a step back from European affairs and C - were basically told by all of Western Europe "stay away from our business" anyway.
The Germans got their teeth kicked in when the Triunes invaded a few years ago. They're barely hanging on by a thread and we still don't know how destabilizing the Raven's Rebellion will be when it hits.
The Spanish? They also tried fighting the Triunes and their crown prince ended up dead.
Arles? Too small a population and too large a shared border. Plus they alienated Rhomania, one of the only powers who could theoretically stand up to the Triunes.
EOATH? Too small a population base to effectively do anything on their own.
Poland, Hungary, Prussia all don't really care as they're pretty far away.
The Russians aren't unified (plus, again, that's a problem all the way across the continent).

The Triunes are easily the top dog in Europe. They're Ancien Regime France on steroids.
The problem for the Triunes however is that their current strength is in a foundation of sand. Between the internal friction between the four current groups, the French, who themselves could be broken into two or three groups, the Irish, the South English, and North English/Northumbrians, not to mention likely adding the Dutch/Lotharingians, not to mention pretty much pissing off everyone else around them. Right now Henry is showing off how well a strong monarch can keep something like this together and even then it is due to everyone around him having worn themselves out what with the HRE and Lombardy wasting themselves on Rhomania, which took care of them too, while Spain did the same with Andalusia. Arles, the EAN, Lotharingia, and Aragon aren't strong enough to take them even together on so Lotharingia is hung out to dry.

The issue is that the seams are already straining and once Henry kicks the bucket I doubt his successor will be as capable which will probably result in at least one or two rebellions, the Northumbrians and Lotharingians, if not a full blown succession war. This will be at least 10-15 years from now which means that everyone, even the HRE, will have recovered and wanting to bring the Triunes down a peg or two.

In fact, since Rhomania will likely be uninvolved in the European side of the conflict they might just take the opportunity to consolidate their hold on Island Asia as Latin Europe decides to go all out. Mexico might do the same in the Americas and Caribbean.
 
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