The delineation of roles between the Office of Barbarians and Empire's Eyes are sort of like how the CIA and FBI are (in theory) supposed to operate: one with overseas authority and one operating in the USA proper. I thought adding that was a nice touch.
An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
- Start date
Deleted member 67076
Christ the expenditure on the balance sheet hurts me and I haven't even looked into the numbers. Even with tax reform this would be expensive as hell. The expanded bureacuracy makes me wonder how common graft and other forms of corruption are (not that I'm blaming state operatives in general, but just a habit of the time period).
They have the VANAGIANS!
As to the navy would the Marines start having a proper naval assault, and landing assault specialists? Romans did have specialists for everything.
What is the current Ottoman capital? After going back through the updates, Osman changed it to Baghdad in 1625 but it was mentioned in one of the mass answers after the 1632 update that it was no longer the case. I assume that it would be either Fars or Tehran, Iskandar's power base? With Baghdad no longer the capital, I imagine it's magnitude of importance in the Persians' eyes is decreased and so won't be as tightly defended as if it was the capital?
Evilprodigy
Donor
Tehran didn't become the capital IOTL until the end of the 18th century, it's not that important of a city. Fars isn't a city, it's a province, I assume you mean Shiraz, Fars's capital, which was also the Zand Dynasty's capital. Isfahan seems most likely given its central geographic location in Persia and because it was specifically chosen by the Safavids IOTL because their former capital, Qazvin, was too close to the new borders after successive lost wars in the late 16th century.
The ITTL Ottomans moving their capital because the border has shifted too close for comfort would precisely mirror that issue which faced the OTL Safavids and their reaction. Isfahan was already a capital and a centre of overland transportation and communication, but didn't see a serious golden age until the Safavid court arrived. There's room for growth but all the old benefits of the former capital of the Seljuqs remain.
Oops, I meant Isfahan which for a reason only God know, I somehow conflated with the entity succeeding the Timurids in OTL.
Cryostorm
Monthly Donor
If I recall correctly the southern cone is united under the Vijayanagar, making it one of the most powerful Dravidian states in history, while northern India is a hodgepodge of states such as the Ottomans, newly arisen Sikhs, and I believe the Triunes in the Bengal area.
Romania is of course represented in Taprobane, OTL Ceylon/Sri Lanka.
Evilprodigy
Donor
The romans have several colonies in India, notably at Surat (A Kephale and vassal to the Vijayanagari), Alappazhu, and Ceylon.
Most of India proper though is run by the Vijayanagari Emperors based in the Deccan. North India is more messy. Forces under Venkata Raya pushed the Ottomans out either to the Punjab area at Lahore or from there, I don't recall which. Right now the power vacuum between Ottoman departure and Vijayanagari distance has directly lead to the rise of Oudh which may or may not have also absorbed Bengal.
Regardless significant European colonial presence in India didn't occur until a century later IOTL at Bengal. European presence until then was limited almost exclusively to trading factories with the sole notable exception the island of Ceylon because it's an island. It was more or less unified (aside from holdouts in the southwest mountains in the Kingdom of Kandy) in the 1590s by the Portuguese and taken by the Dutch. That role has been filled ITTL by the Rhomans, who seem to have replaced the OTL Portuguese and Dutch concerns in the east.
I forgot if this has been answered, but how are the St Thomas Christians doing? Was there something similar to OTL synod of Diamper to unite the Orthodox and St Thomas Christians? They already follow a similar rite to other Christians in the empire like the Assyrian Church of the East.
Talking about the Ottomans, do they share any border with the Zheng? If the Zheng has managed to reach OTL Qing levels of influence, Central Asia (Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan etc) would well be an area of contention between these two great powers and the Zheng another potential ally for Rhomania.
No that was under Arthur II in the 1520’s. This would be the Third Rhine War.
Why doesn’t Persia just withdraw from Rhomanian territory to either a. show goodwill and try to avoid future conflict or b. concentrate where it will matter and not spread out. They know what the Romans can bring to bear after Thessaloniki, either avoiding conflict with or putting out the utmost effort against the Romans immediately is the only way they can hope for their lands not to be ravaged and to minimize territorial losses.
They tried that, but the Romans rejected the offer because they captured a bunch of powerful Ottoman border fortresses that they didn't want to return. So now the Ottomans are left with economically useless Roman provinces while the Romans have massive staging grounds for invasions into Mesopotamia.
Cryostorm
Monthly Donor
That and Romania wants all of northern Mesopotamia, particularly the areas around and including Mosul and Erbil, to put an end to the Eastern threat by making the area a giant fortress and to be in position to raze the rest of Mesopotamia if the Ottomans, or any other Persian dynasty, gets belligerent. With that done Romania will not have any real threat to its mainland borders and its integrity will be the securest it has been since Justinian if not farther back.
I really hope we see a more transformative border than that. Capturing Mesopotamia in its entirety, and perhaps even as far as Bandar Bushehr/Shiraz. (Shiraz as a client ... state? Would be interesting)
Like, we need a genuine humbling of the Ottomans in the same way Hungary was humbled. Plus, whilst the border is long, as long as the Romans include the right border settlements and fortify the passes of the Zagros, Mesopotamia can be a huge source of revenue (and oil in the future). It also gives another area for a major staging ground for eastern naval affairs. A Mesopotamian fleet based in Basra, Kuwait, Bandar Bushehr gives a pretty sweet expansion of Roman naval ability, and if they can be as successful as getting Kish and Qeshm, then you've made it so that constraining the Roman fleet in the East requires shutting down two major sealanes.
There are other benefits to it too. Georgia will likely expand into the Iranian Plateau in such a war, making them a stronger ally and securing swathes of the border, whilst being the more obvious focus of Persian revanchism vs Turkish revanchism.
It also means that the only eastern frontier left that the Romans need to worry about is the Arabs. When you have two naval staging grounds that surround them, the easy solution is to mix up economic sabotage and clientelisation/occupation.
I wonder, are there ANY Arab Christians at this point? (Anizzah?) Just as it'd be interesting to see a Christian Arab Client State based at Al Hira, and allow it to be the frontier of that conflict. Restoring the Anizzah from the Syrian interior to giving them Al Hira and that frontier could be really interesting.
The main problem I see with this is it sustainable for either Rhomania or a client state to hold onto Mesopotamia? I reason Egypt was "successful" was that there was a much larger Christan minority they could have rule and even then it wasn't stable until after genocide and the southern half split off. Then adding onto the fact in 20-40 years when Persia has recovered they will be interested in taking back Mesopotamia, meaning the Muslim majority could revolt against Rhomania when they attack. Even assuming Rhomania could hold onto Mesopotamia, if will likely be difficult to control and be more expensive than what it is worth.
Cryostorm
Monthly Donor
Yeah, that is the kicker, any successful and lasting conquest of central and southern Mesopotamia, the Arab/Turkish portions, would require ethnic cleansing and wholesale migration on the order of what just happened to the TTL Syrians or OTL eastern Germans after WWII.