Alternative History Armoured Fighting Vehicles Part 3
- Thread starter Claymore
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Actually, I'd expect the Italians to take a more independent approach. Ansaldo-Fiat had notoriously high influence on the fascist regime and rejected even local production of German tanks when it was offered, instead suggesting indigenous designs.
We're more likely to see a modern take on the P43 program instead.
I agree but always felt Ansaldo-Fiat was made up of major A-holes so went in another direction.
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Is the shitty impression of the Italian tanks are true or is it overhyped? What can be done to avoid it or help Italian armor?
They're true, Ansaldo-Fiat had a monopoly on Italian AFV designs and refused to incorporate any ideas from outside sources.
The only way things could have been improved IMO would be if Mussolini sicked the Mafia on em (Ansaldo-Fiat). I even used that premise in a background story for an alt-Italian tank once.
marathag
Banned
rather than being the only major power to keep Ford and his modern Factories out of the country, the Moose embraces Fordism
Can't blame you for that yeah. OTO actually nearly got a contract in 1941 to build Pz IIIs and a new factory so that could be the starting point for German-style Italian vehicles in the long run.
As pointed out by Cortz, the biggest problem is that almost all Italian military companies were nationalized and owned by fascist higher-ups competing between each other and working for profit. Ansaldo eventually got a monopoly on tanks and Fiat on tank engines to the detriment of OTO and state design bureaus, which meant that they had no reason to compete on the quality front and could go cheap on everything. This is why Ansaldo stopped welding tanks after the first batch of CV33s.
A separate problem is that the lead designer at Ansaldo, Engineer Rosini, was the one calling the shots so the entire Italian tank development process by the late 30s depended on a single man. Unfortunately, his conclusion on WW1 tanks was that the small FT was much better than the heavy Mark tanks. He thought small tanks would be more nimble and harder to see and hit, and that small caliber guns could fire faster and so had greater chance to hit, including on the move. He said in 1937 that a heavy breakthrough tank should weigh about 15 tons.
Of course, these ideas worked very poorly in practice, and led Italian tank development to be somewhat blind to what was happening in the rest of the world.
marathag
Banned
Though had they put their minds to it, could have made an early M-24/AMX-13 type light tank early in the War
They had lightweight Aero engines, Torsion bar, and use the light 75mm/L27 and 13.2mm HMG in a turret
I forgot, for some reason Rosini didn't want to use aircraft engines either. We truly needed OTO to remain a competitor.
Well the fat dude in the red suit has been remarkably generous this year and with 3 x kits and a new tool set I will be ready for some New Year whiffing.
Kits? An FT-17 for the Norwegian Truge conversion, a Valentine and a M8 GMC - @cortz#9 guess where this is going! 👍😉
Kits? An FT-17 for the Norwegian Truge conversion, a Valentine and a M8 GMC - @cortz#9 guess where this is going! 👍😉
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Garrison
Donor
Alas they are true, this is an example of the most common Italian 'AFVs' in 1941:
By Stefan Didam - Schmallenberg - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=27522547
Indeed, Italian armour development was rather hindered by needing to search the couch cushions for whatever funding they could get the Italian Navy (genuinely quite good) and the Italian Air Force (actually pretty decent) had left behind.
Given the battles they expected to fight, the relative lack of funding for tanks is understandable. Italy is rather like Japan in that regard.
Given the battles they expected to fight, the relative lack of funding for tanks is understandable. Italy is rather like Japan in that regard.
Isn't that the model that Ethiopians managed to put out of commission by hopping on, knocking on the hatch, and beheading the crew when they opened it?
marathag
Banned
the need for locking hatches wasn't seen as needed, until you actually had close assaults to AFVs
marathag
Banned
US had to retrofit locks for the fuel ports on the tanks to keep the Japanese from sticking flammable bits down the pipes
Someone must've been a good boy this year, surprised it was you.
I cant wait to see the Wolverine, honored to know one of my designs is coming to life, of sorts that is and Garrison deserves credit for thinking it up as well.
marathag
Banned
Though were made to fight here
The Italian Occupazione Avanzata Frontiera Nord (Occupation Northern Boundary Advance) at the end of WWI and continued by the Moose as the 'Alpine Wall', the armor used in the valleys between the forts
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