Pumpkin pie? Who steered you wrong? You have to go with pecan pie, that's where it is at.
I agree, pecan pie is something else and well worth the sugar rush that follows every mouthful!
Alternative History Armoured Fighting Vehicles Part 3
- Thread starter Claymore
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I agree, pecan pie is something else and well worth the sugar rush that follows every mouthful!
Not done Best Buy yet but already been exposed to WalMart. Good prices but some very odd/unconventional people!
No, when the Black Friday sales hit in the US, it gets NUTS.Not done Best Buy yet but already been exposed to WalMart. Good prices but some very odd/unconventional people!
I do my kit shopping at either hobbyland or Michael’s. The prices at both variety a bit. Hobbyland are most costly but the have better selection whereas Michael’s is cheaper but very limited selection to pick from.
Smart man. People have died during the frenzy beforeAh, gotcha!
I missed type that, its Hobbytown, not Hobbyland. The link should help you see if there are any near you.
Lol, I tried Hobbyland and it is an actually hobby store in Bulgaria - quite good and well priced too but didn’t have what I am after!
i think that will classify as the advanced urban warfare course lol
A combined arms section of the Kompanie Villebois-Mareuil makes last minute preparations before storming a Freeporter Black Spears pirate stronghold on the Kashar Plateau, deep within the interior of the equatorial highlands.
In the foreground, dismounted Legionaar mercenaries armed with M91 autofusil rifles of pre-Collapse origin take up their jump-off positions, supported by the Tirailleur-class Bakkie combat vehicles Tonkin and Usuthu. The Tirailleur-class modification of the common Bakkie transport is a Legionaar innovation, largely derived from archival schematics of the pre-Collapse Armscor Cheetah MRAP, itself a heavily modified military variant of the utilitarian Grysbok chassis that constitutes the base of the present day Orbitaaler Bakkie. The Tirailleur-class modification sacrifices the spacious interior volume, heavy payload capacity, amphibious fording capability, raw engine power, and operating range of the common Bakkie for improved all-terrain handling, armor protection, crew/core systems survivability, and armaments package. The Tirailleur-class sports a swivel-mounted ablative mining laser, a weapons system that is commonly deployed on Ossewa-class heavy lifters and Afrikander surface cruisers but impossible to install on an unmodified Orbitaaler Bakkie. Under ideal atmospheric conditions, the ablative laser is effective out to long range against soft-skinned targets like Freeporter wind-skiffs and Djong-Kok pirate sailskimmers but vulnerable to most anti-laser countermeasures and defenses, including particulate smokescreens, reflective chaff, and military-grade ceramsteel armor plating. For the mid range work of blasting breaching points into the ancient orbital wreckage that houses most Freeporter pirate dens, however, the armaments package of the Tirailleur-class modification is more than adequate.
A combined arms section of the Kompanie Villebois-Mareuil makes last minute preparations before storming a Freeporter Black Spears pirate stronghold on the Kashar Plateau, deep within the interior of the equatorial highlands.
In the foreground, dismounted Legionaar mercenaries armed with M91 autofusil rifles of pre-Collapse origin take up their jump-off positions, supported by the Tirailleur-class Bakkie combat vehicles Tonkin and Usuthu. The Tirailleur-class modification of the common Bakkie transport is a Legionaar innovation, largely derived from archival schematics of the pre-Collapse Armscor Cheetah MRAP, itself a heavily modified military variant of the utilitarian Grysbok chassis that constitutes the base of the present day Orbitaaler Bakkie. The Tirailleur-class modification sacrifices the spacious interior volume, heavy payload capacity, amphibious fording capability, raw engine power, and operating range of the common Bakkie for improved all-terrain handling, armor protection, crew/core systems survivability, and armaments package. The Tirailleur-class sports a swivel-mounted ablative mining laser, a weapons system that is commonly deployed on Ossewa-class heavy lifters and Afrikander surface cruisers but impossible to install on an unmodified Orbitaaler Bakkie. Under ideal atmospheric conditions, the ablative laser is effective out to long range against soft-skinned targets like Freeporter wind-skiffs and Djong-Kok pirate sailskimmers but vulnerable to most anti-laser countermeasures and defenses, including particulate smokescreens, reflective chaff, and military-grade ceramsteel armor plating. For the mid range work of blasting breaching points into the ancient orbital wreckage that houses most Freeporter pirate dens, however, the armaments package of the Tirailleur-class modification is more than adequate.
Great stuff as always. I have missed your excellent work. Thanks for sharing.
Anyone want to take a stab on how tanks in the 1920s would look if there wasn't a war between 1914-18?
Early 20's? Experimental prototypes, if at all.
Later 20's? Was there a smaller war which showed trench warfare was inevitable?
That will impact length. Otherwise I would say that tanks would be more like oversized armored cars, say a driver, commander/gunner, and a loader. Might be as big as an F-350.
Later 20's? Was there a smaller war which showed trench warfare was inevitable?
That will impact length. Otherwise I would say that tanks would be more like oversized armored cars, say a driver, commander/gunner, and a loader. Might be as big as an F-350.
A bit like @FickleCrossroad says, I don’t think the development of tanks was inevitable without the stalemate of WW1’s trench warfare to kick start it all. I suspect that without The necessity of WW1 being the mother of invention, the infantry and cavalry would have continued to dominate for many years to come.
The development of the internal combustion engine would certainly have brought about motorised transport for the infantry and a bit like the development of fighter aircraft to defeat the scouts, I suspect armoured cars would have been the natural evolution of the ground fighter. This may well, in turn, have naturally led to the evolution of the tracked and armoured heavy ground fighter (tank) but when that would have occurred is open for conjecture.
Obviously, any extended conflict would have condensed that evolutionary timescale. That said, I also suspect that the light, tracked carrier would not have been that far off given its better off road capability to wheeled trucks. Again, tracked carriers would probably naturally lead to tracked carrier destroyers in the shape of armed tankettes, which in turn would have led to larger tanks in due course.
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the us civil war already showed the first signs of the impact of trenches, but trenches in a small war would most likely be overlooked.
First armoured cars pre-date ww1 by a decade, so i expect for armoured cars to show up and play a much bigger role than otl.
They are just too handy for suppression of uprisings & riots. likely first use would be in some sort of colonial incident.
The moment internal combustion engines and lorries become commonplace sooner or later someone is going to put a gun on them, the experience will learn that an unshielded gun is a hazard, and soon some boilerplating will be added, and slowly evolve into a all out armoured car. without a war to force through the necessity of tracks for better terrainhandling, wheels will be preferred as they do better on roads (and go faster).
Manticore's Atlantic Army will have a battle tank establishment of roughly 40 tank battalion equivalents (30 tank and 20 armored cavalry), so 2,000 to 2,500 battle tanks. A third of these tanks will be with the infantry divisions, while the rest will be in the OMG. Assigning a more-or-less steady state production rate of 300 vehicles (five battalions) per month, the entire force can be equipped in a eight months: two months for infantry tank battalions, two for armored cavalry battalions, and four for OMG tank battalions.
The battle tank used for Atlantic Army will essentially be an M10A1 tank destroyer (with Ford GAA) with Sherman-standard armor, a transfer case to reduce hull height by roughly 4 to 6 inches, six-wheel torsion bar suspension, and wide tracks out as far as the TD's angled sponsons. Weight will probably go up to almost 35 tons, but the VVSS isn't going to be a factor here. The T23 turret with 76 mm gun will be introduced in January 1944.
Production starting in January 1943 will fully equip Atlantic Army with battle tanks with the Sherman 75 turrets and then produce half the establishment strength in replacements. Units will be reequipped with Sherman 76 turrets as new vehicles become available. Precedence goes to armored cavalry, OMG tank, and then infantry tank battalions. Four effective months of production ahead of D-Day should reequip the armored cavalry and half of the OMG tank battalions. Replacement levels will reach 100% as tanks that were replaced with 76 mm battle tanks move to the reserve pool. Fighting in the May - December period will attrite at least 50% of tanks, and the chance of 100% attrition should be considered. British tank attrition in the entire Northwest Europe theater was about 100%; American tank attrition was 50 - 75%. These eight months of production should be sufficient to reequip all Atlantic Army tank units, but losses would be concentrated among cavalry and OMG tank units with 76 mm battle tanks, so the infantry will probably be using 75 mm tanks at the beginning of 1945. Four months of production before the end of the war in Europe will allow for the replacement of the infantry tanks with 76 mm battle tanks and for attrition replacements after the March - May German campaign. Alternatively, 1945 production could switch to the T26 turret, so 90 mm battle tanks would go to cavalry and half of the OMG tank battalions and the 76 mm battle tanks would trickle down to the infantry tank battalions. The weight and height issues that kept the T26 turret off Shermans would not be a problem with this battle tank.
Atlantic Army is the only element faced with a significant enemy tank force. Northern Army in Norway and Pacific Army in SWPA will use Lend-Lease Shermans in small numbers ( < 10 battalions). Southern Army watching the Argentines will use the old early war tanks because their opponent has no tanks.
EDIT: I'm going to try to make this more detailed. I'm also going to reduce production to 200 per month (M10 production averaged 200 - 400 per month over 1943).
Badger I: Standard hull with 76mm L/40 cannon (produced Jan 1943 - Dec 1943)
Badger II: Standard hull with 76mm L/53 cannon in T23 turret (produced Jan 1944 - Dec 1944)
Badger III: Upgraded hull with 90mm L/53 cannon in T26 turret (produced Jan 1945 - Apr 1945)
Establishment strength will be 2,400 tanks (60 tanks each for 40 battalion equivalents):
Cavalry: 600 tanks
OMG tanks: 1200 tanks
Infantry: 600 tanks
Production Jan 1943 - Dec 1943
2400 Badger I
Production Jan 1944 - May 1944
1000 Badger II
Production Jun 1944 - Dec 1944
1400 Badger II
Production Jan 1944 - Apr 1945
800 Badger III
I am going to assume steady tank losses of 10% per month, which is probably undershooting for 1944 and overshooting for 1945. Combat between Jun 1944 and Apr 1945 (11 months) will amount to 110% losses. I think this is a relatively accurate estimate of overall losses despite the fact that we now believe vehicles will be lost at 5 to 10 times the rate of personnel and US divisions generally lost about 100% of establishment strength in the war in Northwest Europe. Evidently it was different back then.
Status on 01 Jun 1944
Cavalry: 600 x Badger II
OMG tanks: 400 x Badger II, 800 x Badger I
Infantry: 600 x Badger I
Reserve: 1000 x Badger I
Losses Jun 1944 - Dec 1944:
802 x Badger I
878 x Badger II
Status on 01 Jan 1945
Cavalry: 600 x Badger II
OMG tanks: 922 x Badger II, 278 x Badger I
Infantry: 600 x Badger I
Reserve: 720 x Badger I
Losses Jan 1945 - Apr 1945:
324 x Badger I
523 x Badger II
112 x Badger III
Status on 01 May 1945
Cavalry: 600 x Badger III
OMG tanks: 88 x Badger III, 998 x Badger II, 114 x Badger I
Infantry: 600 x Badger I
Reserve: 560 x Badger I
Production rate decreases to 100 x Badger III per month after Jul 1945.
Production May 1945 - Dec 1945
1000 x Badger III
Status on 31 Dec 1945
Cavalry: 600 x Badger III
OMG tanks: 1088 x Badger III, 112 x Badger II
Infantry: 600 x Badger II
Reserve: 286 x Badger II, 1274 x Badger I
A new tank establishment is created with the post-war Atlantic Army RIF.
The new establishment will be 1,600 tanks (50 tanks each for 32 battalion equivalents):
Cavalry: 400 tanks
OMG tanks: 800 tanks
Infantry: 400 tanks
Redistribution of Badger III tanks results in many changes.
Status on 01 Jan 1946
Cavalry: 400 x Badger III
OMG tanks: 800 x Badger III
Infantry: 388 x Badger III, 12 x Badger II
Reserve: 986 x Badger II, 1274 x Badger I
Status on 31 Jan 1946
Cavalry: 400 x Badger III
OMG tanks: 800 x Badger III
Infantry: 400 x Badger III
Reserve: 88 x Badger III, 998 x Badger II, 1274 x Badger I
In an alternative scenario where new production remains at 100 x Badger III per month but is complemented by conversions of Badger I to Badger III at 100 per month, the 2,400 tank establishment can be reequipped by Feb 1946.
Status on 28 Feb 1946
Cavalry: 600 x Badger III
OMG tanks: 1200 x Badger III
Infantry: 600 x Badger III
Reserve: 176 x Badger III, 998 x Badger II, 474 x Badger I
The battle tank used for Atlantic Army will essentially be an M10A1 tank destroyer (with Ford GAA) with Sherman-standard armor, a transfer case to reduce hull height by roughly 4 to 6 inches, six-wheel torsion bar suspension, and wide tracks out as far as the TD's angled sponsons. Weight will probably go up to almost 35 tons, but the VVSS isn't going to be a factor here. The T23 turret with 76 mm gun will be introduced in January 1944.
Production starting in January 1943 will fully equip Atlantic Army with battle tanks with the Sherman 75 turrets and then produce half the establishment strength in replacements. Units will be reequipped with Sherman 76 turrets as new vehicles become available. Precedence goes to armored cavalry, OMG tank, and then infantry tank battalions. Four effective months of production ahead of D-Day should reequip the armored cavalry and half of the OMG tank battalions. Replacement levels will reach 100% as tanks that were replaced with 76 mm battle tanks move to the reserve pool. Fighting in the May - December period will attrite at least 50% of tanks, and the chance of 100% attrition should be considered. British tank attrition in the entire Northwest Europe theater was about 100%; American tank attrition was 50 - 75%. These eight months of production should be sufficient to reequip all Atlantic Army tank units, but losses would be concentrated among cavalry and OMG tank units with 76 mm battle tanks, so the infantry will probably be using 75 mm tanks at the beginning of 1945. Four months of production before the end of the war in Europe will allow for the replacement of the infantry tanks with 76 mm battle tanks and for attrition replacements after the March - May German campaign. Alternatively, 1945 production could switch to the T26 turret, so 90 mm battle tanks would go to cavalry and half of the OMG tank battalions and the 76 mm battle tanks would trickle down to the infantry tank battalions. The weight and height issues that kept the T26 turret off Shermans would not be a problem with this battle tank.
Atlantic Army is the only element faced with a significant enemy tank force. Northern Army in Norway and Pacific Army in SWPA will use Lend-Lease Shermans in small numbers ( < 10 battalions). Southern Army watching the Argentines will use the old early war tanks because their opponent has no tanks.
EDIT: I'm going to try to make this more detailed. I'm also going to reduce production to 200 per month (M10 production averaged 200 - 400 per month over 1943).
Badger I: Standard hull with 76mm L/40 cannon (produced Jan 1943 - Dec 1943)
Badger II: Standard hull with 76mm L/53 cannon in T23 turret (produced Jan 1944 - Dec 1944)
Badger III: Upgraded hull with 90mm L/53 cannon in T26 turret (produced Jan 1945 - Apr 1945)
Establishment strength will be 2,400 tanks (60 tanks each for 40 battalion equivalents):
Cavalry: 600 tanks
OMG tanks: 1200 tanks
Infantry: 600 tanks
Production Jan 1943 - Dec 1943
2400 Badger I
Production Jan 1944 - May 1944
1000 Badger II
Production Jun 1944 - Dec 1944
1400 Badger II
Production Jan 1944 - Apr 1945
800 Badger III
I am going to assume steady tank losses of 10% per month, which is probably undershooting for 1944 and overshooting for 1945. Combat between Jun 1944 and Apr 1945 (11 months) will amount to 110% losses. I think this is a relatively accurate estimate of overall losses despite the fact that we now believe vehicles will be lost at 5 to 10 times the rate of personnel and US divisions generally lost about 100% of establishment strength in the war in Northwest Europe. Evidently it was different back then.
Status on 01 Jun 1944
Cavalry: 600 x Badger II
OMG tanks: 400 x Badger II, 800 x Badger I
Infantry: 600 x Badger I
Reserve: 1000 x Badger I
Losses Jun 1944 - Dec 1944:
802 x Badger I
878 x Badger II
Status on 01 Jan 1945
Cavalry: 600 x Badger II
OMG tanks: 922 x Badger II, 278 x Badger I
Infantry: 600 x Badger I
Reserve: 720 x Badger I
Losses Jan 1945 - Apr 1945:
324 x Badger I
523 x Badger II
112 x Badger III
Status on 01 May 1945
Cavalry: 600 x Badger III
OMG tanks: 88 x Badger III, 998 x Badger II, 114 x Badger I
Infantry: 600 x Badger I
Reserve: 560 x Badger I
Production rate decreases to 100 x Badger III per month after Jul 1945.
Production May 1945 - Dec 1945
1000 x Badger III
Status on 31 Dec 1945
Cavalry: 600 x Badger III
OMG tanks: 1088 x Badger III, 112 x Badger II
Infantry: 600 x Badger II
Reserve: 286 x Badger II, 1274 x Badger I
A new tank establishment is created with the post-war Atlantic Army RIF.
The new establishment will be 1,600 tanks (50 tanks each for 32 battalion equivalents):
Cavalry: 400 tanks
OMG tanks: 800 tanks
Infantry: 400 tanks
Redistribution of Badger III tanks results in many changes.
Status on 01 Jan 1946
Cavalry: 400 x Badger III
OMG tanks: 800 x Badger III
Infantry: 388 x Badger III, 12 x Badger II
Reserve: 986 x Badger II, 1274 x Badger I
Status on 31 Jan 1946
Cavalry: 400 x Badger III
OMG tanks: 800 x Badger III
Infantry: 400 x Badger III
Reserve: 88 x Badger III, 998 x Badger II, 1274 x Badger I
In an alternative scenario where new production remains at 100 x Badger III per month but is complemented by conversions of Badger I to Badger III at 100 per month, the 2,400 tank establishment can be reequipped by Feb 1946.
Status on 28 Feb 1946
Cavalry: 600 x Badger III
OMG tanks: 1200 x Badger III
Infantry: 600 x Badger III
Reserve: 176 x Badger III, 998 x Badger II, 474 x Badger I
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I found a little blurb on the 120mm Delta gun that was part of the T95 test program in 1960. The whole plan was trashed after ARCOVE decided to focus on the 6-inch Gun/Missile launcher because of the ATGM diameter issue. This gun could have gone on the M60A1 around 1965, right when the T-64 was introduced. Instead, it ended up as the basis of the Rheinmetall 120mm gun program after 1962 or 1963, and it was the 120mm gun that was supposed to go on the KPz-70. It eventually made its way into service in 1979 on the Leopard 2 about 15 years late.
Does that tank look like a Hybrid between an M60 and a T-55?
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