Alternate rugby history: Rugby becomes professionalised in 1893?

[kinnikuniverse]

So yeah, i wanna know if there is any interest for a TL where Rugby gets professionalised after the rugby board votes yes to pay players for injury time and missing work.

So far, i already got a champion list for the english premiership and the english national cup, as well as the clubs list of the 2023-2024 English pyramid, which i will share now. I'm still wondering what would the effects of no league-union split be across the globe.

English premiership

1895: Mannigham (1)
1896: Manningham (2)
1897: Oldham (1)
1888: Leicester (1)
1889: Leicester (2)
1900: Leicester (3)
1901: Leicester (4)
1902: Leicester (5)
1903: Leicester (6)
1904: Salford (1)
1905: Oldham (2)
1906: Gloucester (1)
1907: Halifax (1)
1908: Leicester (7)
1909: Wigan (1)
1910: Oldham (3)
1911: Wigan (2)
1912: Huddersfield (1)
1913: Leicester (8)
1914: Salford (2)
1915: Huddersfield (2)
1916: Leeds (1)
1917: Leeds (2)
1918: Northampton (1)
1919: Warrington (1)
1920: Hull FC (1)
1921: Hull FC (2)
1922: Wigan (3)
1923: Northampton (2)
1924: Wigan (4)
1925: Hull Kingston Rovers (1)
1926: Wigan (5)
1927: Harlequins (1)
1928: Harlequins (2)
1929: Huddersfield (3)
1930: Huddersfield (4)
1931: Wasps (1)
1932: St. Helens (1)
1933: Wasps (2)
1934: Salford (3)
1935: Harlequins (3)
1936: Hull FC (3)
1937: Salford (4)
1938: Wasps (3)
1939: Salford (5)
1946: Wigan (6)
1947: Wigan (7)
1948: Wasps (5)
1949: Huddersfield (5)
1950: wigan (8)
1951: northampton (3)
1952: Wasps (6)
1953: St. Helens (2)
1954: Warrington (2)
1955: Warrington (3)
1956: Northampton (4)
1957: Northampton (5)
1958: Hull FC (4)
1959: St. Helens (3)
1960: Wigan (9)
1961: Leeds (3)
1962: Huddersfield (6)
1963: Northampton (6)
1964: Leicester (9)
1965: St. Helens (4)
1966: Bristol (1)
1967: Leicester (10)
1968: Harlequins (4)
1969: Leeds (4)
1970: St. Helens (5)
1971: St. Helens (6)
1972: Leeds (5)
1973: Bristol (2)
1974: Bristol (3)

PLAYOFFS ERA

1975: St. Helens (7)
1976: Salford (6)
1977: Saracens (1)
1978: Halrequins (5)
1979: Leicester (11)
1980: Leicester (12)
1981: Saracens (2)
1982: Hull FC (5)
1983: Hull FC (6)
1984: Hull Kingston Rovers (2)
1985: Wasps (7)
1986: Bath (1)
1987: wigan (10)
1988: Widnes (1)
1989: Widnes (2)
1990: Wasps (8)
1991: Bath (2)
1992: Bath (3)
1993: Wigan (11)
1994: Wigan (12)
1995: Leicester (13)
1996: Wigan (13)
1997: St. Helens (8)
1998: Newcastle (1)
1999: St. Helens (9)
2000: Leicester (14)
2001: Leicester (15)
2002: Gloucester (2)
2003: Wasps (9)
2004: Wasps (10)
2005: Wasps (11)
2006: Sale Sharks (1)
2007: Leeds (6)
2008: Newcastle (2)
2009: London Irish (1)
2010: Newcastle (3)
2011: Leeds (7)
2012: Harlequins (6)
2013: Wigan (14)
2014: Northampton (7)
2015: Saracens (2)
2016: Saracens (3)
2017: Wigan (15)
2018: Saracens (4)
2019: Exeter (1)
2020: Exeter (2)
2021: Harlequins (7)
2022: St. Helens (10)
2023: Sale Sharks (2)


Leicester 15
Wigan 15
Wasps 11
St. Helens 10
Northampton 7
Harlequins 7
Leeds 7
Hull FC 6
Salford 6
Huddersfield 6
Bath 5
Saracens 4
Oldham 3
Exeter 2
Newcastle 3
Bristol 3



Challenge cup

1897: Leicester (1)
1898: Leicester (2)
1899: Oldham (1)
1900: Swinton (1)
1901: Leicester (3)
1902: Broughton Rangers (1)
1903: Halifax (1)
1904: Halifax (2)
1905: Warrington (1)
1906: Leicester (4)
1907: Warrington (2)
1908: Leicester (5)
1909: Wakefield Trinity (1)
1910: Leeds (1)
1911: Leicester (6)
1912: Dewsbury (1)
1913: Huddersfield (1)
1914: Hull FC (1)
1915: Huddersfield (2)
1920: Huddersfield (3)
1921: Northampton (1)
1922: Hull FC (2)
1923: Leeds (2)
1924: Wigan (1)
1925: Oldham (2)
1926: Swinton (1)
1927: Oldham (3)
1928: Harlequins (1)
1929: Wigan (2)
1930: Wasps (1)
1931: Halifax (3)
1932: Leeds (3)
1933: Huddersfield (4)
1934: Wasps (2)
1935: Castleford (1)
1936: Leeds (4)
1937: Wasps (3)
1938: Salford (1)
1939: Halifax (4)
1941: Leeds (5)
1942: Leeds (6)
1943: Northampton (2)
1944: Gloucester (1)
1945: Huddersfield (5)
1946: Wakefield Trinity (2)
1947: Bradford (1)
1948: Wigan (3)
1949: Northampton (3)
1950: Warrington (3)
1951: Wigan (4)
1952: Workington Town (1)
1953: Huddersfield (6)
1954: Warington (4)
1955: Northampton (4)
1956: St. Helens (1)
1957: Leeds (7)
1958: Wigan (5)
1959: Wigan (6)
1960: Wasps (4)
1961: St. Helens (2)
1962: Wasps (5)
1963: Wakefield Trinity (3)
1964: Northampton (5)
1965: Wigan (7)
1966: St. Helens (3)
1967: Leicester (7)
1968: Leeds (8)
1969: Castleford (2)
1970: Castleford (3)
1971: Saracens (1)
1972: Gloucester (2)
1973: Harlequins (2)
1974: Warrington (5)
1975: Saracens (2)
1976: Newcastle (1)
1977: Newcastle (2)
1978: Gloucester (3)
1979: Leicester (8)
1980: Leicester (9)
1981: Leicester (10)
1982: Hull FC (3)
1983: Harlequins (3)
1984: Bath (1)
1985: Bath (2)
1986: Bath (3)
1987: Bath (4)
1988: Wigan (8)
1989: Wigan (9)
1990: Wigan (10)
1991: Northampton (6)
1992: Harlequins (4)
1993: Leicester (11)
1994: Wigan (11)
1995: Bath (5)
1996: St Helens (4)
1997: Leicester (12)
1998: Saracens (3)
1999: Wasps (6)
2000: Wasps (7)
2001: Newcastle (3)
2002: London Irish (1)
2003: Gloucester (4)
2004: Newcastle (4)
2005: Leeds (9)
2006: Wasps (8)
2007: Leicester (13)
2008: St. Helens (5)
2009: Warrington (6)
2010: Northampton (7)
2011: Wigan (12)
2012: Leicester (14)
2013: Wigan (13)
2014: Exeter (1)
2015: Exeter (2)
2016: Hull FC (4)
2017: Wigan (14)
2018: Exeter (3)
2019: Warrington (7)
2020: Leeds (10)
2021: Worcester (1)
2022: Warrington (8)
2023: Saracens (4)



English Rugby Pyramid 2023-2024

English Premiership
Sale Sharks
London Irish
Saracens
Harlequins
Wasps
Leicester Tigers
Northampton Saints
Wigan Warriors
Leeds Rhinos
St. Helens
Exeter Chiefs
Gloucester Rugby
Bath Rugby
Salford Red Devils
Huddersfield Giants
Hull Kingston Rovers

English division 2
Newcastle Falcons
Bristol Rugby
Blackheath
Castleford Tigers
Hull FC
Leigh
Wakefield Trinity
Leeds Tykes
Oldham
London Welsh
Warrington
Worcester

3rd division
Marlborough
Bedford Blues
London Scottish
Workington Town
Bradford Bulls
Widnes
Sheffield
Halifax
Fulham RFC
 Ealing
Doncaster
Jersey reds
Nottingham
Roterham

4th division
 Cornish
Featherstone
Swinton
Hunslet
Richmond
Coventry
Cambridge
Macclesfield
Old albanians
Blaydon
Plymouth
Birmingham Moseley

 

[kinnikuniverse]

Now, the french championship, with the championship proper starting in 1911-1912:

French Rugby Top 14

1912: Stade Toulousain (1)
1913: Bayonne (1)
1914: Perpignan (1)
1920: Tarbes (1)
1921: Perpignan (2)
1922: Toulouse (2)
1923: Bayonne (2)
1924: Toulouse (3)
1925: Carcassone (1)
1926: Toulouse (4)
1927: Stade Francais (1)
1928: Pau (1)
1929: Quillan (1)
1930: Agen (1)
1931: Lyon (1)
1932: Lyon (2)
1933: Lyon (3)
1934: Bayonne (3)
1935: Biarritz (1)
1936: Clermont (1)
1937: Clermont (2)
1938: Perpignan (3)
1939: Biarritz (2)
1943: Bayonne (4)
1944: Perpignan (4)
1945: Carcassone (2)
1946: carcassone (3)
1947: Toulouse (5)
1948: Toulon (1)
1949: Castres (1)
1950: Racing 92 (1)
1951: Lyon Villeurbane (1)
1952: Carcassone (4)
1953: Carcassone (5)
1954: Grenoble (1)
1955: Perpignan (5)
1956: Albi (1)
1957: Racing 92 (2)
1958: Albi (2)
1959: Racing 92 (3)
1960: Lourdes (1)
1961: béziers (1)
1962: Agen (2)
1963: lezignan (1)
1964: Pau (2)
1965: Agen (3)
1966: Agen (4)
1967: Carcassone (6)
1968: Toulon (2)
1969: Toulouse (6)
1970: Clermont (3)
1971: Toulon (3)
1972: Béziers (2)
1973: Toulouse Olympique (1)
1974: Narbonne (1)
1975: Brive (1)
1976: Carcassone (7)
1977: Béziers (3)
1978: Béziers (4)
1979: Narbonne (2)
1980: Toulouse (7)
1981: Perpignan (6)
1982: Perpignan (7)
1983: Perpignan (8)
1984: Agen (5)
1985: Toulouse (8)
1986: Toulouse (9)
1987: Toulon (4)
1988: Agen (6)
1989: Toulouse (10)
1990: Racing (4)
1991: Bordeaux (1)
1992: Toulon (5)
1993: Castres (2)
1994: Toulouse (11)
1995: Toulon (6)
1996: Brive (2)
1997: Toulouse (12)
1998: Stade Francais (2)
1999: Clermont (4)
2000: Colomiers (1)
2001: Toulouse (13)
2002: Biarritz (3)
2003: Stade Francais (3)
2004: Perpignan (9)
2005: Biarritz (4)
2006: Biarritz (5)
2007: Clermont (5)
2008: Clermont (6)
2009: Perpignan (10)
2010: Clermont (7)
2011: Montpellier (1)
2012: Toulouse (14)
2013: Castres (3)
2014: Montpellier (2)
2015: Clermont (8)
2016: Racing 92 (5)
2017: La Rochelle (1)
2018: Castres (4)
2019: Toulouse (15)
2020: Bordeaux (2)
2021: La Rochelle (2)
2022: Montpellier (3)
2023: Toulouse (16)


2023-2024 French Top 14

Stade Toulousain
Stade Rochelais
Montpellier Rugby
CA Bordeaux-Bègles
USA Perpignan
AS Carcassonne
Stade Français
Racing 92
RC Toulon
Villeneuve
Biarritz Olympique
Lyon OU
Castres Olympique
ASM Clermont

Pro D2
CA Brive
Section Paloise
Narbonne
Toulouse Olympique
Albi
Saint-Esteve
SU Agen
Béziers
Colomiers
 Bayonne
Dax
Oyonnax

Division 3
Marseille Avenir
Lourdes
Pia
Limouxin
Tarbes
Grenoble
Lyon Villeurbane
Quillan
Lezignan
Saint-Gaudens
Limoges

 

[kinnikuniverse]

The Canadian Premiership and second division lineup for the 2023-2024 season:

Canadian Rugby premiership 2023-2024

RC Montreal
Toronto Argonauts
Hamilton Tigers RFC
Ottawa FC
Halifax Tars RFC
Edmonton Clansmen
Calgary Hornets
Winnipeg Wasps
Regina Roughriders
Oshawa Vikings
Vancouver Rowing Club
James Bay Victoria



Second division
Toronto Nomads
Toronto Varsity Club
Kitchener
RC Quebec
Lethbridge
Montreal Irish RFC
Saskatoon Wild Oats RFC
Fredericton Loyalists
Surrey
Brampton
Moncton
Saint Johns
Kelowna
Wildcats RFC

 

[durante]

The Canadian Premiership and second division lineup for the 2023-2024 season:

Canadian Rugby premiership 2023-2024

RC Montreal
Toronto Argonauts
Hamilton Tigers RFC
Ottawa FC
Halifax Tars RFC
Edmonton Clansmen
Calgary Hornets
Winnipeg Wasps
Regina Roughriders
Oshawa Vikings
Vancouver Rowing Club
RC Quebec



Second division
Toronto Nomads
Toronto Varsity Club
Kitchener
James Bay Victoria
Lethbridge
Montreal Wanderers RFC
Saskatoon Wild Oats RFC
Fredericton Loyalists
Surrey
Brampton
Moncton
Saint Johns
Kelowna
Wildcats RFC

Tremendously interested so far: I'd swap James Bay with RC Quebec, BC and specifically VI has long been Canada's rugby powerhouse

 

[kinnikuniverse]

Tremendously interested so far: I'd swap James Bay with RC Quebec, BC and specifically VI has long been Canada's rugby powerhouse

Ah ok. i'm from quebec, so i'm not familiar with Victoria. Plus, y'know, the montreal-Quebec Rivalry and stuff. I guess RC Montreal and RC Quebec will meet in the Grey Cup (which is the canadian Rugby equivalent of the FA Cup ITTL)

Gotta admit, i dunno if Villeneuve should be in the french top 14. I only put them in there because its a historically important Rugby League team in France, and i do want Rugby league teams to be represented in the top division, but i dunno if it should be atoulouse Olympique or Albi in the top 14.

Next up would probably be The American pyramid and list of World Cup winners from 1947 onwards.

 

[kinnikuniverse]

The American Rugby Football Pyramid.

National Football League - The richest league in the world, it is home to the top american stars and international rugby stars. The league has TV Deals across the major networks similar to the NFL, with the first three division shown on various television networks and streaming services such as DAZN. Its flagship program "Monday Night Rugby" is a staple of north american sports television.

NFL First division - 20 teams, each team plays each other once to make an 18-week schedule like real life NFL. The top 8 reaches the playoffs.

Boston Irish
Green Bay Packers
Pittsburgh Steelers
New York Old Blues
New York Athletic Club
Los Angeles RFC
San Francisco Golden Gate
Philadelphia Whitemarsh
Kansas City Blues
Buffalo Rugby
Chicago Lions
Miami RFC
Seattle Seahawks
New Orleans Saints
Tampa Bay Krewe
Jacksonville RFC
Minneapolis Metro RFC
Dallas Cowboys (originally Dallas Harlequins because it was formed by English Harlequins fans who migrated to Dallas in the early 20th century)
Cincinnati RFC
Detroit RFC

Division 2 - top 2 wins promotion, while 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th compete in the promotion playoffs
Rockford Ravens
Nashville RFC
Santa Monica RFC
Belmont Shore RFC
Charlotte Rugby
New York Rugby Club
Baltimore Brumbies
Washington RFC
Austin Huns
Atlanta Renegades
St. Louis Bombers
OKC Crusaders
Tempe Old Devils
San Diego Old Mission
Houston Athletic
Denver Broncos

Division 3
Cleveland Rovers
Raleigh RFC
Portland Rugby
Talahassee Rugby
Mystic River
Hartford Wanderers
Portland Maine Rugby
Santa Rosa Rugby Club
San Jose RFC
Sacramento Lions RFC
Potomac Exiles
St. Paul RFC
Canton Bulldogs
Dayton RFC

There is also the Jim Thorpe National Open Cup, which is the national cup competition, open to clubs from across the american pyramid.

 

[Neoteros]

Are the rules those of rugby union, since the rugby league split is averted, or did the sport inch closer to the rugby league rule set anyway, due to the players and spectators of the professional sport demanding a faster game?

 

[kinnikuniverse]

Are the rules those of rugby union, since the rugby league split is averted, or did the sport inch closer to the rugby league rule set anyway, due to the players and spectators of the professional sport demanding a faster game?

It actually evolved into a mix of both as time went on. In the beginning, it was traditional 15s, but the concerns over violence, scrums and rucks and just the general slowness of it led to countries like Australia and the US to experiment with stuff a bit, which eventually was adopted by the rugby world at large, especially as television arrived, and now the sport is the following:

-15 players, as per union
-the number of yards is written on the field like in american football
-6 tackles like in Rugby League, with the attacking team gaining an extra set of 6 tackles if it manages to cross midfield from their own zone. So that means teams could try for a candle kick or a kick and rush in midifield in order to gain the extra set.
-Quick Lineouts for kicking balls into touch. This is especially good if the attacking team receives the ball following a penalty, so it can kick the ball into the opposite team's zone to launch a quick try attempt.
-if the ball goes out of touch via the ball carrier going out, though, then it's a regular lineout.
-if an attacking player gets tackled with the ball in his hands inside his own end zone, then its a safety worth 2 points like in american football.
- If the ball carrier deliberately touches the ball In his own end zone, then that's a touch back, resulting in a play the ball for the team in possesion on the possesing team's 25-yard line.
-scrums are 6 players a side, and they are contested for 5 seconds, after which, the team that has the ball must play it.
-points are 5 for a try, 2 for the conversion and 3 for field and drop goals.

 

[Maeglin]

Problem: I think you still get a split. Scottish Rugby at the time was incredibly anti-professional, to the point where they frowned on touring players getting pocket money to live off. If England endorses professionalism, Scotland's going to throw a hissy fit.

 

[Neoteros]

Problem: I think you still get a split. Scottish Rugby at the time was incredibly anti-professional, to the point where they frowned on touring players getting pocket money to live off. If England endorses professionalism, Scotland's going to throw a hissy fit.

Such a split might be short-lived though; IRL rugby union eventually embraced professionalism despite being the most dominant code by far, so a splinter association dominated by a country that, in comparison to the rest of the Commonwealth and Empire, is minuscule, would probably rejoin the fold after a few decades.

By the way, @kinnikuniverse, here's some early rugby teams from Italy that, with some luck, could survive:

U. S. Milanese (Rugby section of the football team by the same name, founded by the man that imported rugby union to Italy from France, before 1910)

Rugby Club Torino (Played only one game IRL, in 1910, against...)

Pro Vercelli (Rugby section of the football team by the same name)

World War I put a sudden stop to the development of rugby union in Italy; the first championship was held during the Fascist era, before the PNF tried to ban rugby for being too British. As always, Italian neutrality during World War I might do the trick - if Italy is then given the Italian-speaking slices of the crumbling Austria-Hungary after the war, minus South Tyrol and the Slovene-speaking east of Friuli, Fascism could be avoided, too, and no Volata experiment will take place.

 

[kinnikuniverse]

Here are a few logos and kits from Canadian Rugby Clubs in this world:

RC Montreal, the prominent club in Quebec, was formed in the 30s by former player and francophone businessman Leo Dandurand out of a merger between The Montreal Wanderers, located in the west island, and Club de Rugby Mont-Royal, in order to have a club represent the francophone population of Montreal and take on the anglophone powerhouses of the time in Westmount and Montreal Irish. Their best years were the late 50s and early 60s, led by Sam Etcheverry and Hal Patterson, the 70s Dynasty featuring Future club president Larry Smith, Peter Della Riva, Sonny Wade and Junior Ah You, and the late 90s and 00s, led by french international Christophe Lamaison, canadian internationals like Ben Cahoon, Bryan Chiu and Dan Baugh, american playmaker Anthony Calvillo and winger Mike Pringle and the golden generation of Quebecois players that came through the academy.

Stadium: Percival Molson Stadium

Kit:

Home

Away:

Toronto Argonauts RFC are the most successful club in canadian rugby history, and are the reigning canadian champions. They play at Exhibition Stadium, at Exhibition Place, which was never modified to accomodate baseball, so it remains a rugby and soccer ground only.

Home kit:

Away Kit:

Winnipeg Wasps have a illustrious history. From their heydays in the 50s and 80s to relegation in the mid-00s, the club went through a lot, before emerging as the dominant force of Canadian rugby in the 2020s. They play at IG Field since 2013


Home kit:

Away kit:

More coming soon, cause the picture limit is only 9 or 10 per post

 

[kinnikuniverse]

More Canadian clubs logos and kits

this, but remove the cats​

The Hamilton Tigers are one of the oldest rugby clubs in Canada, founded in 1869. They were one of the best sides in the 50s and 60s, winning both the top division and grey cup titles. They would win the top division title two more times in 1972 and, most recently, in 1999, before becoming a yo-yo club for much of the 2000s until they were promoted to the top division just in time for the 2014 season and the opening of its current home ground, Tim Horton Field, named after the legendary hockey player of the same name, in a miracle season where they overcame a poor start and went undefeated at home to clinch the 6th and final playoff spot, going on to become runner-ups of the playoffs.

Since then, Hamilton has become a cup team, winning the Grey Cup in 2017, 2020 and 2021.

Their biggest rivals are the Toronto Argonauts, whom they contest the Queen Elizabeth Way derby, and cross-town rivals Wildcats RFC.

Home kit:

Away Kit:

​

One of the oldest athletic club in Vancouver, the rowing club's Rugby team, playing at BC Place, first tasted success in the Grey Cup in the 60s. Their heydays were the 80s, where they won the first division three times, and the 2000s, where they won 4 top division titles from 2000 to 2011, including 2 doubles in 2000 and 2011. Since then, however, they have been a mid-table side, sneaking into the top 6 playoffs when the stars align from time to time, and a relegation in 2021 was soon followed by promotion the following year.

Home kit:

James Bay, Vancouver's fierce BC Derby rivals, are the pride of Victoria Island. They were among the premier sides of the western provincial Union, until the unification of the unions to form the CFL meant that James Bay was behind the clubs with bigger stadiums in terms of revenue...that is, until the Centennial stadium was built. Most notably, they became the first club to win the premiership after the RC Montreal dynasty of the 70s ended in 1980, followed by another title in 1982. In the 90s, they'd win the title in 1993, but financial troubels due to costly expansions of Centennial stadium pushed them to relegation fights for much of the early 00s before stabilising by the mid-00s and turning back into contenders, winning in 2008 and reaching the final in 2013, losing to Regina.

Home kits:

https://halifaxtars.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/black22-231x300.png

Halifax Tars RFC are the little club that could. Playong at Halifax Commons, Always a producer of fine talents for the national team, they haven't won a lot, only 4 Grey Cups and one first division title in 2012, but they have probably the most devoted fanbase in Canada outside Regina.

Home kits:

https://halifaxtars.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Flag2-scaled.jpg

 

[kinnikuniverse]

Rugby World Cup history, part 1: 1955-1975

1955: New Zealand (1)

The Inaugural Rugby world cup took place in France, and it started with 12 teams: the home nations, France, New Zealand, South Africa, United States, Canada, Australia, Argentina and Italy, all separated into 4 groups of 3, with the winners of each group going to the semi-finals.

In the end, it was New Zealand, England, Scotland and United States that made through. Both semi-finals ended up being blowouts, with the Kiwis teachign the americans a lesson in passing, while England's dominant pack thrashed the scottish side, which was composed of amateurs due to the scottish union opposing pro players. Such a heavy defeat against their biggest rivals prompted the Scottish union to accept pro players in future squads, thus finally completing the country's transition to professionalism.

In the final, New Zealand would triumph over the rose XV at Parc des Princes to become inaugural champions.

1959: England (1)

The success of the inaugural world cup prompted the tournament to come back with the same format. This time, it took place in the birthplace of the game, England, and the host nation were looking to avenge their defeat in last tournament's final.

Italy, Canada and Australia scored their first world cup wins. The latter managed to win their group and go to the semi-finals for the first tiem, as does South Africa, who joins England and New Zealand.

The Kiwis defeated their neighbors, while in the first epic of the world cup's history, South Africa and England battered each other until England won a penalty, which they converted into the game-winning field goal to have a rematch with New Zealand at Twickenham, where they learned from their defeat and shut down the kiwis with efficient marking and opportunistic counter-attacks to win the world cup at home.

1963: New Zealand (2)

For the third edition of the tournament, held in the USA, the World Cup expanded into a 16-team tournament, with an extra spot for European, South American and oceanic teams, with Asia also getting represented with Japan making its debut, alongside Uruguay, Spain and Samoa.

The semi-finalists of the last world cup made it, with Canada and Ireland making their knockout stage debut while Scotland and the US came back after defeating Wales in the decisive game for 2nd place in their group. The Kiwis made short work of the Scots, while South Africa got upset by Ireland, while England and Australia took extra time to decide a winner, with the English barely squeezing through with two crucial field goals, while the US, woth a young squad led by their fearsome forwards, their half combo of Johnny Unitas and Bart Starr and deadly finisher Jim Brown, survived a poor start against Canada and destroyed the maple leaf in the second half.

The Irish put up a spirited effort, but sadly, their resolve would be broken by New Zealand's relentless attacks, while the US beat England at their own game, with the american forward pack dominating in scrums and Jim Brown scoring a hat trick of tries for the US to reach the final for the first time at home.

In a sold out Soldier Field in Chicago, the partizan crowd gave all their energy to the US, who led at half time over the kiwis 12-7. Sadly, New Zealand's experience proved to be the difference, for silly penalties and momentary lapses in concentration were taken advantage of by the kiwis with gusto, as New Zealand wins their 2nd world cup title.

1967: Australia (1)

1967 was the year of Canada with Expo 67 and the Rugby World Cup taking place there. Fiji made their World Cup debut that year, being the third oceania side after winning the qualification round.

While New Zealand, the US, South Africa, and England made the knockout stages, as usual, The host country made it, as well as Wales, Australia and, for the first time, Italy.

The US took on New Zealand, and with the experience gained from the last world cup, the Americans won over New Zealand for the first tiem in the world cup, while England would defeat Italy and South Africa, thanks to a hat trick by breakout star and st. Helens winger Tom Van Vollenhoven, would defeat Wales, and Australia would survive a comeback attempt by Canada to advance.

England and the US would engage in a furious battle of attrition, with England's superior stamina proving the difference agaisnt a battered american team that perhaps have given up too much energy to defeat the all blacks, while in a highly entertaining gmae, Van Vollenhoven scored a brace, but Australia and its free-flowing rugby overwhelmed the South African defense in the second half, and Australia would stun the Springboks to face England in the final, where they finally defeated their test bogeyman to win their first world cup.

1971: United States (1)

Taking place in Australia, the same teams as last edition competed. The US, now with the people eaters from Minneapolis and young talents such as Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, Ted Hendricks and OJ Simpson, stormed through their group and the quarter-final against a game, but overmatched Irish team, while Australia defeated Scotland, South Africa defeated New Zealand and England got upset by a talented young Welsh team full of potential led by scrum half Gareth Edwards.

From then on, the US made short work of the reigning champions and South Africa, with Van Vollenhoven at the peak of his powers and the first sign of the springbok way of playing becoming prominent, would defeat the tslented, but inexperienced Welsh to take part in their first world cup final, where the US, carried by the defense and OJ scoring a brace, would avenge their world cup final defeat at the hands of New Zealand in 1963 to win their first ever world cup.

1975: Wales (1)

Back in France for the second time, the world cup would see the debut of the USSR and Hong Kong and many upsets in the group stages, sucha s Italy triumphing over South Africa and Canada winning over England.

The story of the tournament, though, was the compelte domination of Wales from beginning to end. Playing an incredible team rugby, Gareth Edwards and cohorts would wow the world and revolutionise the game, going undefeated throughout the tournament and making the likes of Italy, the US and finalists Australia look like amateurs on the way to a historic world cup win...

 

[Maeglin]

Such a split might be short-lived though; IRL rugby union eventually embraced professionalism despite being the most dominant code by far, so a splinter association dominated by a country that, in comparison to the rest of the Commonwealth and Empire, is minuscule, would probably rejoin the fold after a few decades.

It took until the mid-1990s for real-life rugby union to turn professional.

Scotland was not trivial at the time, and in fact was the most successful rugby nation of the nineteenth century (Wales would take over prior to the First World War). Moreover, one imagines that the elite amateurs of England, despite being outvoted here, would agree with the Scots.

 

[Marius]

Rugby World Cup history, part 1: 1955-1975

1955: New Zealand (1)

The Inaugural Rugby world cup took place in France, and it started with 12 teams: the home nations, France, New Zealand, South Africa, United States, Canada, Australia, Argentina and Italy, all separated into 4 groups of 3, with the winners of each group going to the semi-finals.

In the end, it was New Zealand, England, Scotland and United States that made through. Both semi-finals ended up being blowouts, with the Kiwis teachign the americans a lesson in passing, while England's dominant pack thrashed the scottish side, which was composed of amateurs due to the scottish union opposing pro players. Such a heavy defeat against their biggest rivals prompted the Scottish union to accept pro players in future squads, thus finally completing the country's transition to professionalism.

In the final, New Zealand would triumph over the rose XV at Parc des Princes to become inaugural champions.

1959: England (1)

The success of the inaugural world cup prompted the tournament to come back with the same format. This time, it took place in the birthplace of the game, England, and the host nation were looking to avenge their defeat in last tournament's final.

Italy, Canada and Australia scored their first world cup wins. The latter managed to win their group and go to the semi-finals for the first tiem, as does South Africa, who joins England and New Zealand.

The Kiwis defeated their neighbors, while in the first epic of the world cup's history, South Africa and England battered each other until England won a penalty, which they converted into the game-winning field goal to have a rematch with New Zealand at Twickenham, where they learned from their defeat and shut down the kiwis with efficient marking and opportunistic counter-attacks to win the world cup at home.

1963: New Zealand (2)

For the third edition of the tournament, held in the USA, the World Cup expanded into a 16-team tournament, with an extra spot for European, South American and oceanic teams, with Asia also getting represented with Japan making its debut, alongside Uruguay, Spain and Samoa.

The semi-finalists of the last world cup made it, with Canada and Ireland making their knockout stage debut while Scotland and the US came back after defeating Wales in the decisive game for 2nd place in their group. The Kiwis made short work of the Scots, while South Africa got upset by Ireland, while England and Australia took extra time to decide a winner, with the English barely squeezing through with two crucial field goals, while the US, woth a young squad led by their fearsome forwards, their half combo of Johnny Unitas and Bart Starr and deadly finisher Jim Brown, survived a poor start against Canada and destroyed the maple leaf in the second half.

The Irish put up a spirited effort, but sadly, their resolve would be broken by New Zealand's relentless attacks, while the US beat England at their own game, with the american forward pack dominating in scrums and Jim Brown scoring a hat trick of tries for the US to reach the final for the first time at home.

In a sold out Soldier Field in Chicago, the partizan crowd gave all their energy to the US, who led at half time over the kiwis 12-7. Sadly, New Zealand's experience proved to be the difference, for silly penalties and momentary lapses in concentration were taken advantage of by the kiwis with gusto, as New Zealand wins their 2nd world cup title.

1967: Australia (1)

1967 was the year of Canada with Expo 67 and the Rugby World Cup taking place there. Fiji made their World Cup debut that year, being the third oceania side after winning the qualification round.

While New Zealand, the US, South Africa, and England made the knockout stages, as usual, The host country made it, as well as Wales, Australia and, for the first time, Italy.

The US took on New Zealand, and with the experience gained from the last world cup, the Americans won over New Zealand for the first tiem in the world cup, while England would defeat Italy and South Africa, thanks to a hat trick by breakout star and st. Helens winger Tom Van Vollenhoven, would defeat Wales, and Australia would survive a comeback attempt by Canada to advance.

England and the US would engage in a furious battle of attrition, with England's superior stamina proving the difference agaisnt a battered american team that perhaps have given up too much energy to defeat the all blacks, while in a highly entertaining gmae, Van Vollenhoven scored a brace, but Australia and its free-flowing rugby overwhelmed the South African defense in the second half, and Australia would stun the Springboks to face England in the final, where they finally defeated their test bogeyman to win their first world cup.

1971: United States (1)

Taking place in Australia, the same teams as last edition competed. The US, now with the people eaters from Minneapolis and young talents such as Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, Ted Hendricks and OJ Simpson, stormed through their group and the quarter-final against a game, but overmatched Irish team, while Australia defeated Scotland, South Africa defeated New Zealand and England got upset by a talented young Welsh team full of potential led by scrum half Gareth Edwards.

From then on, the US made short work of the reigning champions and South Africa, with Van Vollenhoven at the peak of his powers and the first sign of the springbok way of playing becoming prominent, would defeat the tslented, but inexperienced Welsh to take part in their first world cup final, where the US, carried by the defense and OJ scoring a brace, would avenge their world cup final defeat at the hands of New Zealand in 1963 to win their first ever world cup.

1975: Wales (1)

Back in France for the second time, the world cup would see the debut of the USSR and Hong Kong and many upsets in the group stages, sucha s Italy triumphing over South Africa and Canada winning over England.

The story of the tournament, though, was the compelte domination of Wales from beginning to end. Playing an incredible team rugby, Gareth Edwards and cohorts would wow the world and revolutionise the game, going undefeated throughout the tournament and making the likes of Italy, the US and finalists Australia look like amateurs on the way to a historic world cup win...

When does apartheid start becoming an issue?

In OTL normal rugby contact with SA was maintained until the early 1980s, before a broad boycott was instilled, unlike cricket which saw other cricket nations boycott SA cricket from 1970.

 

[kinnikuniverse]

Rugby World Cup history part 2: 1979-1991

1979: New Zealand (3)

Taking place in New Zealand, the 1979 Rugby World cup was held without the participation of South Africa, whom had been banned from international tournaments due to complaints about Apartheid.

This world Cup was characterised by both the return of Samoa and Romania into the competition and the aging squad of the US not performing up to standards, and depsite the great defense led by Mean Joe Green, the US would lose to France in the quarter-finals, while New Zealand won against England. Australia and Canada would have a great scrap, and Canada almost pulled off the miracle, but the wallabies survived to face Wales, who defeated Ireland by a single try.

The semis would see the All Blacks and France endure a competitive game that ended with New Zealand defeating Les Bleus, while Australia and Wales played a very entertaining gmae that ended in extra time with a welsh victory, the reigning champions looking to repeat.

Unfortunately, the All Blacks were prepared, and they would cancel the Welsh's high-flying offense and win their third title, their first since 1963.


1983: France (1)

1983 would see the US host the world cup for the second time, and the american team, now having rebuild with an attractive roster containing joe montana, Warren Moon, Jerry Rice and Walter Payton, have high hopes of winning the title. Spain returns to the World Cup, while Samoa defeated Tonga to make it, whike South Korea makes its debut after beating Japan in the asian cup final the previous year.

US, France, Ireland, Wales, New Zealand and, for the first time ever, USSR and Fiji made the knockout stages, while England would be shocked by Italy for the last qualification spot in their group after a poor performance ever since the disastrous last place finish at the european cup. France got the luck of the draw, defeating USSR in a demonstration of the french flair and their conductor Serge Blanco. Wales defeated Italy in a memorable scrap and Ireland defeated a game Fiji, while in the feature match of the quarters, The US and New Zeland delivered a battle of the titans, with the Americans triumphing over the reigning world champions with a Jerry Rice try.

France demolished Wales in the first semi-final and the US conquered Ireland, leading to a brilliant final full of attacking intent, where the French and Blanco outplayed Montana and the US to win their first ever world cup.

1987: United States (2)

Held in Australia for the upcoming Bicentennarial of the country the following year, the Rugby World Cup would see a very competitive group stage. The US knocks out England in the group stage to join Australia and their young generation comprised of Steve Mortimer, Garry Jack, Peter Sterling, Wayne Pierce, Mal Meninga and electrifying winger David Campese to the quarter finals, while Canada sneaked past Wales alongside Ireland, Fiji again managed to get into the knockout stages alongside New Zealand and Scotland would finally return to the knockout stages alongside France.

All this to get the honor of being thrashed by the All Blacks, while the US had an unexpected tough time agaisnt the surprising Canadian, with the key difference being new flanker Lawrence Taylor and his interception try. Meamwhile, France quickly dispatched of Fiji and Australia bested Ireland. In the semis, two massive clashes as LT put in a star-making defensive performance, with the Montana-Rice duo delivering the dagger into New Zealand's heart with a late try, while France and Australia played a thriller that ended with France winning 30-24 for a rematch agaisnt the americans.

This time, however, with LT revitalising the defense, the final wans't even close, as the US wins their second world cup 29-9


1991: Australia (2)

To celebrate the 120th anniversary of the founding of the Rugby Football Union, the home nations became joint hosts of the 1991 edition, with each home nation headlining each and every group.

England, unfortunately, ended up in the group of death with New Zealand, America and Italy, but they managed to get out top of the group with a brilliant new generation led by the most dazzling player in the sport, Winger Martin Offiah, who made his mark by scoring the winning try agaisnt New Zealand in the opener. This, followed by the US, now boasting a star-studded squad, defeating New Zealand meant that the all blacks, for the first time in its world cup history, got knocked out in the group stage.

Scotland topped Group B at Murrayfield, but ina dazzling twist, Japan managed to stun Canada and become the first asian side to reach the knockout stage, a monumental moment that tremendously increased the sport's popularity in the land of the rising sun.

And the upsets kept happening, as Wales in group C were defeated by Samoa 16-13, with Samoa going through for the first time in its history. In comparison, Ireland and France going through was boring.

In the quarters, Scotland would spoil Samoa's party, Offiah would once again save England agaisnt France, the US would trounce Japan and Australia would win a nailbiter agaisnt Ireland 19-18, with the golden generation in their prime and now boosted by the likes of Glen Lazarus and Wally Lewis.

The semis would see two massive clashes as Scotland, agaisnt all odds, defeated England in a defensive game 9-6 to reach its first ever world cup final, while the Wallabies would shut down the US's stars 16-6, then would win a physical affair against the scots 12-6 to win its second world cup.

To celebrate the tournament's 40th anniversary, the world cup will expand to 20 teams, with each continent (except the americas, who remains at 4) gaining one additional spot. It would also be announced that, for the first time ever, the world cup would take place in South Africa, with the springboks being reinstated after the now free Nelson Mandela brought an end to Apartheid....

To be continued.

 

[Maeglin]

When does apartheid start becoming an issue?

In OTL normal rugby contact with SA was maintained until the early 1980s, before a broad boycott was instilled, unlike cricket which saw other cricket nations boycott SA cricket from 1970.

Apartheid had two levels of problematic:

The earlier issue is that South Africa objected to Maori and Pacific Island players coming as part of touring teams. The 1928, 1949, and 1960 New Zealand tours to South Africa were all-white. By the 1960s, you had a "No Maoris, No Tour!" movement in New Zealand - part-motivated by the thought that New Zealand could never win a series in South Africa with a purely white team. In 1970 and 1976, Maori players were permitted, under the classification of honorary whites.

The broader problem of disgust at apartheid came later.

 

[kinnikuniverse]

Rugby World Cup history part 3: 1995-2007

1995: South Africa (1)

Seen by many as the emancipation of the post-apartheid South Africa of Nelson Mandela, the 1995 Rugby World cup was the first to be held with 20 teams split into 4 groups of 5. Spain, Romania and South Korea returns to the competition, while newcomers Tonga and Ivory Coast make their debut.

The main storyline, however, Was the much-awaited return of the Springboks, led by their captains François Pienaar. The Boks won the opener 27-18 agaisnt the reigning champions Australia, and they easily topped their group, with Australia fending off a charging Canada to claim second spot.

Group B would see one of the most unexpectedly competitive groups in history, as Samoa, Argentina, England and Italy all traded wins between each other, with Italy and Argentina all scoring upset wins over England, who were without Martin Offiah, who was healing injuries that he suffered for Wigan, and a thriller in Cape Town saw Argentina stun Samoa to go through for the first time ever as Italy and los pumas qualify for the knockout stages.

Pool C would see New Zealand's new secret weapon, Jonah Lomu, reveal himself to the world by scoring a hat trick agaisnt the US and tear through their formidable defense with an impeccable ease. The US, however, would bounce back and defeat Wales, Japan and Ireland to claim the second spot. The team, led by the halves combo of veteran scrum half Dan Marino and fly half Troy Aikman, the dynamic center and winger pairings of Smith-Barry Sanders and Rice-Irvin and fullback Deion Sanders, are deadly in attack, but some questionable defending made them suspicious of hoping for the grand honors.

Group D, on the other hand, was a predictable affair, with France and last tournament finalists Scotland easily qualifying, with the highlight being Ivory Coast first win after they defeated South Korea.

The knockout stages would see South Africa easily defeat Argentina 42-12, while France and the US continued their rivalry with another epic encounter. The first half ended tied 7-7, but after number 8 Bill Romanowski got sent off following a sucker punch to Phillipe Saint-André, France took over in the second half, exposing the US's defensive lapses with their french flair to crush the eagles 36-12. the reiging champions Australia survived a scare agaisnt Italy 22-17, while Lomu was once again the star in a high-scoring game against Scotland where the all blacks won.

The semis sees South Africa and France engage in an epic battle of attrition, with the springboks pulling through at the dead 19-15, while New Zealand crushed the Aussies in the second semi-final to set up a clash of titans at Johannesburg, where, for the first time ever, the world cup final woudl go to extra time, and the Springboks, with the entire nation behind them, scored the vital drop goal to give them their first ever Webb Ellis trophy.

1999: Australia (3)

Taking place in Canada for the second time, the 1999 world cup was the last before the new millenium, and also sees the debut of Papue New Guinea. In the group stage, not too many surprises other than the group C where, agaisnt all odds, Argentina and Samoa made it through after an implosion from Wales and the US, who were seen as the big favorites of the group, with America missing out on.the knockout stages following some questionable call-ups by Mike Ditka and his outdated tactics.

In the knockout stages, all matches were one-sided affairs, the reigning champions Springboks dominated the young and inexperienced english squad, France thrashing Samoa and New Zealand, with its dominant squad, demolishing Canada. Australia vs Scotland was the only remotely close game, but the wallabies, with a fresh injection of talents such as Darren Lockyer, Stephen Larkam and George Gregan, still manage to edge out the win in convincing fashion

The two semifinals, however, were epics. Australia managed to defeat south africa in overtime 27-25, while France would deliver a performance for the ages against the All Blacks. Alas, the french soent all their energies into that match, for Australia dominated them in the final to win their third world cup title.

2003: England (2)

Held in Italy for the first time ever, The 2003 World Cup was one of surprises and redemption for the birthplace of the game. In the knockout stages, England would achieve a historic win over New Zealand, while Ireland scores a big upset win over the United States. Australia and South Africa fought in another classic, and once again, the reigning champions defeat the springboks, while Canada, led by Mike James, Jon Thiel, Dan Baugh, Ben Cahoon, the quebecois golden generation and naturalised citizen Anthony Calvillo, finally made the semi-finals for the first time ever after eliminating Italy.

In an epic clash of the home nations, England and its tenacious forward pack made the difference in a thriller agaisnt the Irish, while Canada gave a surprisngly good fight agaisnt Australia, eben leading heading into the last 20 minutes. Unfortunately, the reigning champions showed why they held the title, and they would successfully mount a comeback to win it.

In the final, one of the greatest in rugby history, england and australia went to extra time 17-17...or so it seemed, when Johnny Wilkinson entered himself into immortality by scoring the world cup winning drop goal for England.

2007: United States (3)

For the first time ever, south america hosts the Rugby World Cup, with Argentina chosen as the host nation. Hong Kong and Portugal made its debut at the competition.

In the group of death, the United States, led by Tom Brady, survived by eliminating the regining champions England to go through along with Australia, while Italy, with its golden generation, sneaked through by eliminating Scotland. Australia went through with Fiji sneaking through at the expense of ales and Canada, while Argentina topped a group for the second time ever alongside France.

In the knockouts, the US and a strong South Africa side delivered a foght to the finish, with substitue Ladanian Tomlinson scoring the winning try right after Bryan Habana scored his to tie it up to give the win in extremis to America, while in a big upset, Italy shocked the world by eliminating Australia to reach the semis for the first time ever. France, meanwhile, carried by an exceptional Sebastien Chabat and Fredéric Michalak, would win a thriller against the All Blacks, while Argentina benefitted from the luck of the draw, eliminating Fiji to reach its first ever semi final.

The US and France fought bravely, but the states's depth proved the difference against a game, but tired French outfit, while Italy and Argentina fought amother thriller, with the home side winning agaisnt all odds to reach the final at home. The Italians, however, would get a consolation prize by defeating France in the bronze medal game.

In the final, despite having the entire nation behind their backs, Argentina were simply outmatched against the American machine, who duly delivered its third world cup title, its first since 1987.

To be continued...

 

[Kevin in Indy]

I was playing around with a template for rugby kit and came up with this for Rockford Ravens:

 

[kinnikuniverse]

I was playing around with a template for rugby kit and came up with this for Rockford Ravens:
View attachment 867013

Nice! I personally thought that they would be wearing the NFL ravens's colors because, you know, Ravens. Plus, Purple is a rare color

I wish i was able to creat custom kits...then again, there are rugby jerseys for NFL teams, so i guess i could take inspiration from that...