There's also the Arab - Israeli Wars as an example of modern ACM, not to mention the Indian - Pakistani Conflicts if People would pay heed to Lessons from other countries experiences. If not the USAF, than maybe some bright young Chinese Officer will point to these accounts.
Alternate Republic of China Air Force- ideas and discussion
- Thread starter abc123
- Start date
While that may be true the arabs just plain sucked in actually using the soviet tactics and strategies ... they may give you a rough idea in what to expect but the soviets are a complete different beast from the arab armies ... the soviets are actually competent to begin with
Saddam's Iraq would get their asses kicked by WW2 Germany and while Iraq is incompetent by arab standards the general suckiness is rampant in all arab armed forces
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abc123
Banned
1955
Forming of all Mustang H squadrons will be finished by the end of this year. All Warhawks will be pulled from active service and mostly sent into museums or used as guardplaines. But, two dozens of them will be used as Historical Flight of the RoCAF, where 2 will be used for flying and the rest for spart parts. Also, spare parts from many other decommissioned aircrafts will be stripped and stored for future use.
Also, all Skyraiders squadrons are formed and the type is now in full operational service.
Expansion of radar network was continued. Five more radar stations were opened in area from Shanghai to Guangdong, two of them on Taiwan.
First T-33 trainers were delivered to the RoCAF. RoCAF formed them into a special training squadron with intention of training instructors who will later train other pilots how to use jets.
It is expected that all 12 T-33 and 6 P-80 will be delivered by end of 1956. RoCAF started to think about future. It was obvious that jets are the future and that old piston aircrafts will not be competitive for much longer. RoCAF intelligence sources said that first Soviet Air Force units deployed in Manchuria will get MiG-15 in 1956 or early 1957. So, RoCAF had to counter that by getting their own jet fighters. So, they had to start with training as soonest as possible. Therefore, they decided to start training of instructors in early 1956. Training will be happening in Hainan, where weather will permit more flying hours.
MiG-15
The obvious candidate to counter MiG-15 was North American F-86 Sabre. But, before Sabre could be introduced, additional trainers like the T-33 were necesarry, so RoCAF decided to buy additional 18 T-33.
Forming of all Mustang H squadrons will be finished by the end of this year. All Warhawks will be pulled from active service and mostly sent into museums or used as guardplaines. But, two dozens of them will be used as Historical Flight of the RoCAF, where 2 will be used for flying and the rest for spart parts. Also, spare parts from many other decommissioned aircrafts will be stripped and stored for future use.
Also, all Skyraiders squadrons are formed and the type is now in full operational service.
Expansion of radar network was continued. Five more radar stations were opened in area from Shanghai to Guangdong, two of them on Taiwan.
First T-33 trainers were delivered to the RoCAF. RoCAF formed them into a special training squadron with intention of training instructors who will later train other pilots how to use jets.
It is expected that all 12 T-33 and 6 P-80 will be delivered by end of 1956. RoCAF started to think about future. It was obvious that jets are the future and that old piston aircrafts will not be competitive for much longer. RoCAF intelligence sources said that first Soviet Air Force units deployed in Manchuria will get MiG-15 in 1956 or early 1957. So, RoCAF had to counter that by getting their own jet fighters. So, they had to start with training as soonest as possible. Therefore, they decided to start training of instructors in early 1956. Training will be happening in Hainan, where weather will permit more flying hours.
MiG-15
The obvious candidate to counter MiG-15 was North American F-86 Sabre. But, before Sabre could be introduced, additional trainers like the T-33 were necesarry, so RoCAF decided to buy additional 18 T-33.
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The surprisingly simple but deadly MiG 15, made in the tens of thousands by many members of the Communist Block with any appreciable industry. Smart move to focus on building up the infrastructure and institutional foundation for the RoCAF future growth than just focusing on the Acquisition of " Shiny Stuff " .
Apologies for the late entry to the discussion, but you've completely missed what would have been their first jet fighter in OTL if the CCP hadn't won.
http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v2/v2n3/cxp-1001.html
Importantly, the deal included license production in China as well as Gloster training up Chinese aeronautical engineers. That gives them a reasonable jet several years before you have them with on in TTL, as well as a basic ability to build jet fighters.
http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v2/v2n3/cxp-1001.html
Importantly, the deal included license production in China as well as Gloster training up Chinese aeronautical engineers. That gives them a reasonable jet several years before you have them with on in TTL, as well as a basic ability to build jet fighters.
Point is it sets the direction of travel. OTL, the agreement to design the fighter and train up a Chinese design team was signed in 1946, and work started rapidly after that. In 1946, the P-80 is only just entering US service and they weren't willing to sell it abroad for some years (10 in OTL) -the Chinese are going to take the bird in the hand and at least start building the Gloster fighter, since that's the only jet they can get for some time. Once they do, they're to at least some extent tied in to the UK aircraft industry and the way it does things - no doubt there will be substantial US aid, but it won't be exclusive.
abc123
Banned
Pdf27, interesting thing about that Gloster project. I really did not know about that. But, it seems to me that building a JET fighter in China in 1946, that had not yet even built a biplane, seems a bit too soon. Yes, I know that it's a OTL project ( and it seems as pretty good aircraft ) but it seems too big jump for RoCAF from pre-WW2 aircrafts to go directly on jets.
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Oh, I have no doubt that it would have been a disaster (doesn't help that Gloster weren't all that interested - they were after the new cutting-edge fighters for the RAF). Remember the Chinese mindset of the time - a lot of decisions were about face rather than real military capability, and being one of the few nations able to build their own "indigenous" jet fighters is a really big thing. I don't think militarily they'd make much of a difference at all, but politically they're very hard to drop and just buy in US aircraft.
I am not sure that you are correct about that view point. China's leader was not a dumb man to wast money on a project that would fail. His friend and chief adviser was former Major General Claire Lee Chennault, who had commanded the Flying Tigers and latter USArmy Air Force forces in China. He latter returned to China after the war and formed Air America to support the Nationalist Chinese. Chaing considered him a close friend and adviser and I doubt if he would have recommended building the Gloster. Remember China's industry was still suffering from the war with Japan and the country was in the midst of a second Civil War. Buying foreign made aircraft would be the smarter thing to do until the war ended and China had a chance to build up its industry to support it.
Thing is, they did buy it in OTL. The Chinese engineers (30 of them) arrived at Huddlecote in September 1946 in OTL, the agreement having been signed on the 18th of July 1946. Approval of a Chinese manufacturing license for the Nene 1 was also given, although RR were asked to delay completion of this. Work proceeded slowly, until the Chinese froze the contract in February 1949 having pretty much lost the civil war. Gloster eventually disposed of the drawings after the Nationalists attacked the British merchant ship Achises, and the UK government put an embargo on releasing anything else.
abc123
Banned
Well pdf27, as I allready said, very interesting thing, but I'm afraid too late to incorporate it into a story because that would require total redesigning of thread, and I'm too lazy for that. 
So, in short- because of US pressure ( US aerospace companies would not be happy with Chinese market being lost to British companies ) and because of larger US military aid than OTL, Chiang decided not to proceed with this contract and canceled it in early 1947.
So, it will have to wait for some version 2.0 of this TL. But, thanks a lot for that and stay tuned. Also, any advice and assistance would most certainly be welcomed. ;-)
So, in short- because of US pressure ( US aerospace companies would not be happy with Chinese market being lost to British companies ) and because of larger US military aid than OTL, Chiang decided not to proceed with this contract and canceled it in early 1947.
So, it will have to wait for some version 2.0 of this TL. But, thanks a lot for that and stay tuned. Also, any advice and assistance would most certainly be welcomed. ;-)
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Totally understand - was kicking myself for not spotting it several weeks sooner when I read itWell pdf27, as I allready said, very interesting thing, but I'm afraid too late to incorporate it into a story because that would require total redesigning of thread, and I'm too lazy for that.
For what it's worth, the reference I have (British Secret Projects) also mentions that they were trying to get help to design an advanced bomber at the time too, but I can't find any reference to it in BSP - merely that the UK was one of a number of countries approached. It would seem reasonable that they failed to get anybody in OTL, but here they might well end up doing a deal with a US company that you could bring into the thread - perhaps for a highly advanced piston/turboprop bomber in an era when everyone else is moving to jets so is less sensitive about the technology?
abc123
Banned
Totally understand - was kicking myself for not spotting it several weeks sooner when I read it
For what it's worth, the reference I have (British Secret Projects) also mentions that they were trying to get help to design an advanced bomber at the time too, but I can't find any reference to it in BSP - merely that the UK was one of a number of countries approached. It would seem reasonable that they failed to get anybody in OTL, but here they might well end up doing a deal with a US company that you could bring into the thread - perhaps for a highly advanced piston/turboprop bomber in an era when everyone else is moving to jets so is less sensitive about the technology?
I don't think I would disclose too much by saying that my intention was that RoCAF get's Martin B-57 Canberra bombers, from USA... But I'm not sure does US license allows for export to other countries?