Alternate Polish Succession 1697

OTL, Maximilian II Emanuel of Bavaria stood as a candidate for the vacant throne of Poland, backed by the unpopular former Queen, Marie Casimire Louise de La Grange d'Arquien. His candidacy went nowhere, and the prize went to Francois Louis, Prince of Conti (French backed candidate). Conti moved too slow, and the throne was grabbed by Augustus II (backed by Austria and Russia). Back then the Polish Crown was 'elected' through bribery, coronation ensured by force.

So, what if Maximilian were to win the election? Marie Casimire was a strong proponent of a Polish-French alliance. Max's son, Joseph Ferdinand, was a big player in the upcoming Spanish succession sweepstakes. Let's say, for arguments sake, that France backed Max for political posturing purposes. This moves Max out of the Habsburg sphere and into the French.

Note: if this borders on ridiculous, put forth cogent reasoning on why it is so. Otherwise, please don't derail this into an argument on the election if this is moderately possible, even if not likely. Unless it is borderline ASB, accept it as the WI. I do welcome corrections of the situation as I've presented it.

Assume the death of Joseph Ferdinand a couple years later.

How does life for Poland and the world go?

Allegedly, Augustus had Saxon troops ready to invade to ensure his coronation. With Max beating him there, with French and polish backing, does Augustus dare start a war?

Although Max wasn't the Austrian candidate (the original was John Louis Sobieski), he does come from the Austrian camp, and Joseph Ferdinand is in Austria, where he can be used as leverage. I'm thinking Austria will accept King Max.

Russia has a keen interest. OTL, they swore not to accept a frenchman on the throne, but Max is not french. Russia and Poland are at war with the Ottomans, and strongly desire Poland to stay in that war. What would Max's stance be? Ottomans are nominally a French ally, but with the 9 year war over, France doesn't have to kowtow to them, and has shown in the past that, unless currently needed, France sides with Catholics. Does France allow Max latitude to walk a delicate path (not dropping out of the war) to prevent Russian invasion? If Russia does intervene, how does that go?

Fluttering of butterfly wings, which may, or may not, cause hurricanes:

-political/economic situation of PLC

-governorship of Spanish Netherlands. OTL, Max is governor and uses this position to side with France in the War of Spanish Succession. Who would take the governorship? Presumably a spanishman.

-War of Spanish Succession. This has obvious effects on the WoSS. Without an easy access to SN, Louis XIV has to either alter his plans (including the option of being more conciliatory and possibly avoiding the war) or take SN by force, which may not go so smoothly and gets France off to a bad start. Does Max bring PLC in on the side of France?

-the Great Northern War. OTL, Augustus was the ring leader of starting the war. Folks often think Russia started the show, but they didn't. Augustus tried to get together an alliance of Saxony, Denmark, and Brandenburg to attack Sweden. When Brandenburg declined, Russia was brought into the fold. Without the kingship of Poland, is Augustus still so bold? If his troops tried, and failed, to take the kingship by force, thereby showing the inadequacies of the Saxon army, it is very doubtful Augustus is so bold. If he backed down in the Polish crisis, he may have a chip on his shoulder, and forge ahead in the Swedish endeavor. Here, the war unfolds far differently. After Charles XII kicks Denmark's butt to the curb and crushes Russia at Narva, he now likely pursues Russian forces instead of OTL going into Poland. The Great Northern War becomes the War of How Sweden Crushed Three Nations in One Easy Lesson (or WoHSCTNOEL for short).

Thoughts?
 
OTL, Maximilian II Emanuel of Bavaria stood as a candidate for the vacant throne of Poland, backed by the unpopular former Queen, Marie Casimire Louise de La Grange d'Arquien. His candidacy went nowhere, and the prize went to Francois Louis, Prince of Conti (French backed candidate). Conti moved too slow, and the throne was grabbed by Augustus II (backed by Austria and Russia). Back then the Polish Crown was 'elected' through bribery, coronation ensured by force.

So, what if Maximilian were to win the election? Marie Casimire was a strong proponent of a Polish-French alliance. Max's son, Joseph Ferdinand, was a big player in the upcoming Spanish succession sweepstakes. Let's say, for arguments sake, that France backed Max for political posturing purposes. This moves Max out of the Habsburg sphere and into the French.

Note: if this borders on ridiculous, put forth cogent reasoning on why it is so. Otherwise, please don't derail this into an argument on the election if this is moderately possible, even if not likely. Unless it is borderline ASB, accept it as the WI. I do welcome corrections of the situation as I've presented it.

Assume the death of Joseph Ferdinand a couple years later.

How does life for Poland and the world go?

Allegedly, Augustus had Saxon troops ready to invade to ensure his coronation. With Max beating him there, with French and polish backing, does Augustus dare start a war?

Although Max wasn't the Austrian candidate (the original was John Louis Sobieski), he does come from the Austrian camp, and Joseph Ferdinand is in Austria, where he can be used as leverage. I'm thinking Austria will accept King Max.

Russia has a keen interest. OTL, they swore not to accept a frenchman on the throne, but Max is not french. Russia and Poland are at war with the Ottomans, and strongly desire Poland to stay in that war. What would Max's stance be? Ottomans are nominally a French ally, but with the 9 year war over, France doesn't have to kowtow to them, and has shown in the past that, unless currently needed, France sides with Catholics. Does France allow Max latitude to walk a delicate path (not dropping out of the war) to prevent Russian invasion? If Russia does intervene, how does that go?

Fluttering of butterfly wings, which may, or may not, cause hurricanes:

-political/economic situation of PLC

-governorship of Spanish Netherlands. OTL, Max is governor and uses this position to side with France in the War of Spanish Succession. Who would take the governorship? Presumably a spanishman.

-War of Spanish Succession. This has obvious effects on the WoSS. Without an easy access to SN, Louis XIV has to either alter his plans (including the option of being more conciliatory and possibly avoiding the war) or take SN by force, which may not go so smoothly and gets France off to a bad start. Does Max bring PLC in on the side of France?

-the Great Northern War. OTL, Augustus was the ring leader of starting the war. Folks often think Russia started the show, but they didn't. Augustus tried to get together an alliance of Saxony, Denmark, and Brandenburg to attack Sweden. When Brandenburg declined, Russia was brought into the fold. Without the kingship of Poland, is Augustus still so bold? If his troops tried, and failed, to take the kingship by force, thereby showing the inadequacies of the Saxon army, it is very doubtful Augustus is so bold. If he backed down in the Polish crisis, he may have a chip on his shoulder, and forge ahead in the Swedish endeavor. Here, the war unfolds far differently. After Charles XII kicks Denmark's butt to the curb and crushes Russia at Narva, he now likely pursues Russian forces instead of OTL going into Poland. The Great Northern War becomes the War of How Sweden Crushed Three Nations in One Easy Lesson (or WoHSCTNOEL for short).

Thoughts?
My 2c worth:

1. If August is not a king of the PLC then he is not triggering anti-Swedish alliance because from the Saxon perspective the whole thing is impracticality: in OTL he was planning to reconquer Livonia but but it is on a wrong side of the PLC so how would he get there?

2. Tsardom of Moscow made peace with the Ottomans in 1700, mostly because it did not dare to fight them alone after Peace of Karlowitz. Peter got somewhat too cocky after rather modest success but not to a degree that would led him into playing a leading role in anti-Swedish Coalition. In OTL it was expected that most of the fighting would be done by the Saxons and Danes while the Russian troops would act on a “remote second” front of Ingria (and get it as a reward) - Swedish troops there were practically absent except for the small garrisons of the obsolete and neglected fortresses. Even then, the Russians got engaged only after August made his move. With the Saxons out, the whole strategic situation changes, especially if Bavarian King of the PLC is friendly to Sweden.

The GNW is not happening, at least on OTL schedule and scenario. Sweden is free to interfere into the WoSS and Peter is forced to keep Russia at peace for quite a while with the options like starting war with Persia well ahead of schedule.

Situation may change if during the WoSS Charles is suffering “alt-Poltava” (as in complete destruction of his army) somewhere far from home.Then Peter may risk attacking the Swedish Baltic provinces (and, anyway, he’d have few more years of peace to train his army). It does not look like the allies were interested in getting Russia into anti-French coalition: Russians still had been considered barbarians of a very low military value. So, scenario of the later period with the Russian auxiliary force marching to the Central Europe is theoretically possible but unlikely.
 
Sweden is free to interfere into the WoSS
I'm not really knowledgeable on Swedish politics, but in searching the alt history threads on GNW, there are 2 common themes: The Sweden will get involved (as if it's a given), and the counter argument that Sweden hadn't been into foreign adventure for quite a while and was more likely to sit on the sideline and just rent out troops as it did in 9 yr war.

Charles XII had barely taken the throne when he was attacked, so we don't really have too much to go on as to what his foreign policy would be.

What's his motivation to get involved? Anything he wants is likely to be in his neck of the woods, and can be had while everyone else is tied up without having to trek off to far away lands. I don't think Sweden/ France had been allied for quite some time.
 
I'm not really knowledgeable on Swedish politics, but in searching the alt history threads on GNW, there are 2 common themes: The Sweden will get involved (as if it's a given), and the counter argument that Sweden hadn't been into foreign adventure for quite a while and was more likely to sit on the sideline and just rent out troops as it did in 9 yr war.

Charles XII had barely taken the throne when he was attacked, so we don't really have too much to go on as to what his foreign policy would be.

What's his motivation to get involved? Anything he wants is likely to be in his neck of the woods, and can be had while everyone else is tied up without having to trek off to far away lands. I don't think Sweden/ France had been allied for quite some time.
Well, renting out the troops was a valid option: IIRC, Count Piper at some point advocated exactly this line of behavior, which would bring a lot of glory (and money). Charles did not look for any territorial acquisitions and, AFAIK, before the GNW started there was a Swedish embassy in Moscow asking for confirmation of the existing peace (Russian answer was that Peter does not have to swear because he already gave such an oath to Charles' father but Charles had to, as a new king; of course, the Swedes disagreed with this scenario and left).

OTOH, I'm not sure that, in an absence of a foreign attack, he could stay at peace: 1st, the army may be unhappy (the war was a traditional source of loot and all types of "entertainments") and 2nd, it seems that in his personality search for "justice" (and punishment of the unjust) had been combined with a desire of a military glory. Anyway, Swedish army had a deservedly great reputation and the sate was (AFAIK) short of money so what was he supposed to do?

Affiliation was France is, of course, just a popular assumption but France was Swedish ally in the Scanian War 1675 - 1679, not such a distant past (and as everybody else Sweden was against France in the 9YW but Charles XI supplied exclusively the contingents due from his German possessions ) and would be most probably willing to pay subsidies while the Hapsburgs were traditional enemies.

In OTL Marlborough went on not quite clear (to me) diplomatic mission and met with Charles XII but both openly disliked each other.
 
A question on Russia: Given the rate of modernization, how long would it take for Peter to feel comfortable in being aggressive, if OTL GNW is butterflied? (assume, for argument's sake, that the Baltic region sits on the sidelines during any WoSS). What would be the effects on Russia should Peter dies before he can embark on his goal of expanding to the Baltic?

Saxony: Would she join into the WoSS? Was the HRE committed to the conflict, or was it an Austrian action with HRE members free to join/not join? Have to admit, I'm a bit fuzzy on how the military alliance worked.
 
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