I was just thinking of this possibility... Why didn't hold? Because of the restored HRE order in Germany and Italy?
I think the German people, as disaparate as they were with regards to identity, probably resented being thought of as "East France".I was just thinking of this possibility... Why didn't hold? Because of the restored HRE order in Germany and Italy?
I think the German people, as disaparate as they were with regards to identity, probably resented being thought of as "East France".
If the Allies post-WW2 really went full Morgenthau, I would imagine that this would be a great way of rubbing it in the Germans' faces.
I was just thinking of this possibility... Why didn't hold? Because of the restored HRE order in Germany and Italy?
I was just thinking of this possibility... Why didn't hold? Because of the restored HRE order in Germany and Italy?
Actually, in Finnish Germany is called 'Saxalainen', Saxa-land. Probably the ancient Finns had more dealings with the Germans from Saxony then with those from any other part.
(Curiously enough, Russia is called 'Venelainen': Sail-land. No idea because that was because it was the land where all the sailing ships came from or because it was where everyone was sailing to.)
A bit off topic, but saksalainen and venäläinen actually refer to the people (-lainen is a suffix that means more or less "someone from X"); the countries are called Saksa and Venäjä, respectively.
To add, there is apparently a linguistic peculiarity in the languages of the Veps and Komi people (connected to Finns). Ročinma in Veps means Sweden, but Ročmu in Komi/Zyrian language means Russia!The German traders on the Baltic in the medieval times were often Saxon, and thus it is natural that Finns had dealings with Germans who would refer to themselves or their homeland as Sachsen. As a continuation of this theme, in Finnish an old term for a travelling salesman is kauppasaksa ("trade-German") or kamasaksa ("stuff-German"). Interestingly, a travelling salesman can also be called a laukkuryssä ("bag-Russian") especially in Eastern Finland.
The Finnish name for Russia, Venäjä, does not seem to refer to boats (unlike the Finnish word for Sweden, see below) but to "Wend", an old Germanic name for a Slavic people. It is easy to think there is a connection to boats, though, as in Estonian for example the word for Russia is Venemaa, which in Finnish looks exactly like "boat land".
In Finnish Sweden is called Ruotsi. It is said that the word is based on an old Swedish word for rowing. It is also said that Rus, for Russian, comes from the same root - due to the Varangians who ruled medieval Rus and arrived by boats. The derogatory name for Russians in Finnish, ryssä, then seems to come to Finnish through Swedish (ryss or ryska), whereas the similar term for a Swede, hurri, apparently comes from what a Swede says when a Finn does not understand or acknowledge him - hur, huru for "how, what" or hör du for "listen" or "are you listening".
if this would be anywhere near a possibility, fluent speakers will correct, but how about Land of the People, or Volksland? Or is that too contrived?
(Strictly as a btw of no significance, there is a newsreader on one of the tv stations in Tucson named "Tedesco".)
Perhaps "Allemania" in English; following the same kind of thing as the French? I know we're talking more about the Germans themselves, but anyway.
If the Allies post-WW2 really went full Morgenthau, I would imagine that this would be a great way of rubbing it in the Germans' faces.
Slightly more on-topic, this has done the rounds a couple of times online.
The big outliers are Latvia and Lithuania, whose name for Germany we're not really sure about, but it might come from the Vagoths.
Maybe it could be named after the Nemetes tribe to give a name like Nemets, which would fit in nicely with the Slavic names for Germany (e.g. Niemcy in Polish).
Cheers,
Nigel.
My understanding is that the etymology of Niemcy in Polish and its equivalents in most Slavic languages is that it comes from a root word meaning "mute," which evolved to mean "foreigner," and then "German," specifically, as the Germans were the closest and largest neighboring culture that didn't speak a Slavic language. You can imagine an ancient German-speaker arriving at a village or marketplace in Slavic-speaking territory and not being able to communicate. Interestingly, in Arabic, Farsi, and historically in Turkish, the Slavic root word for Germany was adopted for the local name of Austria - an-Nimsā is the name of Austria in Arabic, for example.
Aside from the afforementioned roots (from Germania,the Tuetons, the Allemans, the Saxons, and Slavic "mute"), another possibility is to derive the name from Prussia - The only case of this in modern language is Tahitian, which calls Germany by the name "Purutia".
Another name from Old Norse called Germany by the name "Suðrvegr," which means "South Way" as an equivalent to Norway. Perhaps Vikings in early England could spread this etymology, thus making "Sudway" as common name for Germany in English.
Interesting, the word for Austria in Arabic is "Nimsa"
(Curiously enough, Russia is called 'Venelainen': Sail-land. No idea because that was because it was the land where all the sailing ships came from or because it was where everyone was sailing to.)
The Finnish name for Russia, Venäjä, does not seem to refer to boats (unlike the Finnish word for Sweden, see below) but to "Wend", an old Germanic name for a Slavic people. It is easy to think there is a connection to boats, though, as in Estonian for example the word for Russia is Venemaa, which in Finnish looks exactly like "boat land".
Interesting indeed, but if Saksa is how Germany is called in Finnish, how do the Finns call Saxony?
The German traders on the Baltic in the medieval times were often Saxon, and thus it is natural that Finns had dealings with Germans who would refer to themselves or their homeland as Sachsen. As a continuation of this theme, in Finnish an old term for a travelling salesman is kauppasaksa ("trade-German") or kamasaksa ("stuff-German"). Interestingly, a travelling salesman can also be called a laukkuryssä ("bag-Russian") especially in Eastern Finland.