Alternate Countries

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Hvalrossen, Sep 29, 2018.

  1. isabella Well-Known Member

    Mar 22, 2012
    Maybe Lotharingia can work?
    Hegemon and ArchimedesCircle like this.
  2. Zillian Well-Known Member

    Nov 29, 2014
    Country: Carolingian Empire
    Geographical Area: OTL France, OTL German, OTL Italy
    Population: Around 40 million (1600)
    Language: Frankish
    History: The POV is Charles didn't died and inherit the huge realm from his father Charlemagne. His reign last long enough to the empire was transformed into a feudal empire aka Holy Roman Empire which last to this day today with duchies based on culturally/ethical borders

    Based on a EU4 Mod

  3. cmakk1012 Well-Known Member

    Apr 30, 2012
    ...and part two of the Kingdom of India!

    Into the void left by the collapse of the Second Indian Empire stepped a mix of local and foreign powers, the latter tempted into the subcontinent by the chance at a piece of the spice trade. The Čagay Shahanshah Kozro VI, Turkic ruler of Persia and Mesopotamia, reclaimed the Khorasani territories lost in Menandros’ last war, while Arab and African trading nations with long presences in Tamil cities maneuvered for influence and even direct control in the region.

    Menandros’ cousin Euthydemos and his descendants retained power in Punjab and most of Gujarat, still claiming the title of Empire, while other regions came under local Yavana, Baktrian, or even Prakrit rule. There was a revival of Hinduism and Prakrit identity at this time across India prompted by popular gurus, in turn motivating a long-needed reformation of institutional Yavana Buddhism to counter it. With the rise of Buddhist vitality came a shift in the nature of the stupas, already centers of learning and knowledge, into centers of debate and ideology by unprecedented numbers of young students. The most radical of these began to agitate for political reform, supporting an idealized democratic government based on a mix of Buddhist theology and Ancient Greek city governments.

    For a long time these political ideas merely circulated among students and learned people, not reaching the common person. In 1706, however, the ruling family of the eastern city of Kanakora died out and the so-called “Three Great Stupas” of the city created a traditional theocratic government. Many of the educated elite disliked the perceived injustices and wrongs of the new rule and agitated for a democratic revolution, spreading pamphlets and unrest across the city and countryside. When agents of the government shut down one of the printing presses and killed some of its workers in a shoot-out it sparked a mass revolt that would prevail after a short civil war, establishing a radical civilian government that among other reforms abolished certain restrictions of the caste system.

    Immediately recognizing their precarious position as radicals in a region of horrified traditional states, the Kanakoran government appealed to one of the most liberal of these, the Kingdom of Nikaea ruled by the Prakrit king Kuptas I. They sent a delegation agreeing to become clients of Nikaea if the Kingdom preserved their republican government. Before Kuptas could respond, however, an army backing a pretender to the old Kanakoran royal line supported by the Kingdom of Sugala pre-emptively invaded Nikaea, presuming they would accept the invitation. Kuptas defeated the pretender army and then accepted the Kanakoran offer, placing the Nikaean Kingdom in a position of prominence that allowed them to consolidate India in a series of so-called Magnate Wars in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. After winning the third of these and coming to a non-aggression treaty with the Vanga Kingdom Kuptas IV crowned himself King of India in a lavish ceremony in 1811.

    As the Kuptids were a Prakrit (although Buddhist) dynasty, the Yavana and Baktrian magnates of the north resented what they felt to be an inferior group ruling over their rightful lands. A conspiracy of nobles hoping to place a distant descendant of Menandros Megas on the throne initiated the Indian Civil War, a brutal conflict that saw ethnic tensions in India at an all-time high. Atrocities were committed on both sides of the conflict and when Kuptas V defeated the magnates he became a tyrant, brutally crushing any signs of dissent and restricting the rights of the northern lords and autonomous cities such as Kanakora.

    Not long after the initial formation of the modern Kingdom of India Vangal became a republic, inspired by Indian republican thought. The repression of the Indian republicans and liberals inspired sympathy inside the Vangali government, which began funding rebellious elements within India. When Kuptas “the Terrible” discovered this in 1846 he declared war on Vangal, beginning the grisly Indo-Vangali War that used trench warfare tactics based on those used in the Great Gallic War only a decade earlier.

    As the war dragged on both sides desperately sought a means to break the stalemate caused by trench warfare—Vangal possessed a slight advantage thanks to the need for Kuptas to maintain a military presence in the rebellious north but it was not enough to overcome the ingenious strategies created by Indian Prakrit general and nephew of the king Androkottos of Kambates. Three years into the war, however, Persia under its new native Shahanshah Saman II invaded Gandhara to “liberate its Baktrian brethren.” To avert complete disaster Androkottos and a number of other Indian generals enacted a coup, placing Androkottos on the throne and coming to an immediate ceasefire with Vangal (that saw border regions ceded to Vangal, local rights restored across India, and Androkottos marrying a Yavana princess) to combat the Persian menace. Against a united and revitalized India Persia stood no chance and peace was reached after a few short months.

    Although resentment remained between India and Vangal both recognized the need for peace and cooperation due to their long shared border. A number of trade treaties saw the two nations grow closer to each other, eventually culminating in a defensive alliance against the aggressive expansion of Gao China across Central and Southeast Asia. When the Great War broke out Vangal and India lost more of their mutual distrust as allies against China and Persia in campaigns into first Old Baktria and then Persia itself. This was famously commemorated by a photograph of two soldiers, one Vanga and one Indian, waving their nations’ flags at the top of the ancient fortress of Susa.

    Since the Treaty of Alexandria ended the Great War the subcontinent has enjoyed peace and prosperity. Decolonization of the Tamil domains was mostly bloodless, spurred on by Indian and Vanga economic pressure. India, Vangal, and the two Tamil republics enjoy a customs union and defensive alliance today.
  4. Zealot Moderate Radical

    Apr 5, 2010
    Country: Kingdom of Armenia

    Geographical Area: OTL Armenia, OTL NKR, some areas of Western Armenia

    Population: 9M (85% Armenians; Azeri, Kurdish and Syriac minorities)

    Language: Armenian (Offical), Azeri (Minority)

    History: Thanks to the Ottoman-Persian rivalry and Savafid decline, David Bek succeeded in establishing an autonomous area centered around OTL S Armenia and NKR. During his long (POD) reign he was able to subdue local armenian nobility and even some Muslim beys, expanding his dominions westwards. The rise of Nadir Shah forced David to recognize again Persian suzerainity, but his diplomatic skills and his participation in Nadir's campaigns as a loyal commander allowed him to retain autonomy.

    After the death of Nadir Shah, David Bek was able to consolidate his power base: he gained control of strategic trade route across Erivan and small NW corner of Persian Empire which allowed him to establish contact with European Powers, which gave rise to a modest Enlightenment of Armenian culture. David Bek also laid the foundations of a pre-modern state, centralising authority around his court and reducing power of feudal nobility, with the formation of a small but modern permanent military force under his command. Tolerance was the general rule, with many Muslim begs serving in army and court, although a trend towards voluntary convension to christianity took place among some subjects seeking promotion in an Armenian-dominated bureaucracy.

    But the rise of Qajar dinasty signaled the end of independent Armenian rule. In spite of David Bek's alliance with Georgian kings, Qajar forces regained Davidian kingdom, forcing David heirs and some loyal nobility to escape to Russia. Looting and harsh treatment of local population followed, but the desire of national independence remaned strong.

    During the many Russo-Persian Wars with took place amidst the global Napoleonic Crisis, Armenian battleground saw local Armenians fight side by side with Russians against Persians. After years of conflict, western Powers meddling prevented direct Russian annexation, the trade-off resulting in the re-establishment of a buffer Armenian principality under the Davidian dinasty. But the reborn state experienced intercomunnal turmoil since his re-establishment, with Armenians either exerting violence or aggresively pushing for forceful conversion of local Muslims, entailing demographic and economic collapse and subsequent Russian annexation. The Principality elites integrated in Russian society, but the lesser beks, the clergy and the peasantry soon resented Russian rule.

    Direct Russian rule lasted until the end of Crimean War, when Persian intervention on the side of Allies triggered a local Armenian revolt which spread along the border. Treaty of Paris provided again for the re-establishment of an Armenian buffer state between Russian and Ottoman Empires, under the rule of a Constantinople Armenian appointed by the Sultan under the approval of Western Powers. Two decades of Ottoman Armenian rule brought development of trade, crafts, agriculture and enlightened improvements in the field of culture and educacation, but also corruption, despotism and alienation of local elites and clergy. 1878 Russo Turkish war resulted in the restoration of Russian influence, the ousting of Ottoman-Armenian rulers and the appointment of an hereditary prince from Russian-Armenian nobility. Armenian Principality became a Russian puppet, but experienced a long period of peace and development. The appointment as regent of the dismissed Russian-Armenian statesman Count Loris-Melikov galvanized Armenian reformers, and at the turn of the century the country moved smoothly from autocracy to constitutional government.

    The outbreak of WWI saw Armenians obviously on the side of Russia, and Armenian forces were able to occupy parts of Ottoman Armenia. With the collapse of the Tsarist Empire and the withdrawal of Georgians, Armenian military, reinforced by fedayee guerrilla and supplied by UK, had to single-handed defend their soil against Turks and Azeris, but had to retreat their lines to Kars. Following Ottoman collapse, Armenian troops quickly retook Ottoman territory around Van and Alashkert, and repelled Azeri troops to the East.

    The expanded Armenian Kingdom recognised in Paris was able to assert control over his territory firstly by force of arms, and later thanks to diplomacy: a final peace agreement was reached with Atatürk, trading Armenian help against common enemy, the powerful independentist Kurdish Alliance, for border recognition and population exchange. After final settlement with Turkey, Armenian Army resupplied by the Brits moved north to halt Soviet invasion, which had already crushed Georgian and Azeri independence.

    Interwar Armenia experienced leftwing Dashnak long periods in power, when a sort of 'anatolian nordic model' was implemented: expansion of free universal education, healthcare and progressive taxation. Mineral wealth, foreign investment and Armenian diaspora trading connections, and last but not least, political stability helped Armenians to slow but steadily close the gap with the West.

    Armenia luckily avoided Soviet aggression (after the failure of winter war against Finland), and hastily signed a Friendship Treaty with Stalin, even sending troops to help Red Army in Stalingrad. After WWII, Armenia opted by a policy of active neutrality, keeping ties with both Soviet Union and Western Bloc.
    After decades of development and prosperity, Armenia became a regional power and an island of stability in Caucasus and Middle East
    GorillaTheater likes this.
  5. Fex Well-Known Member

    Feb 12, 2015
    Danish? I think you mean Dutch
  6. Koprulu Mustafa Pasha Sadrazam of the Roman Empire

    Oct 24, 2017
    Country: Islamic Republic of Northern Caucasus

    Geography: OTL North of the Caucasus (Krasnodar Krai to Dagestan) + Abkhazia

    Population: 13,2 Million

    Language: Chechen, Adyghe, Various Turkic Languages, Russian

    Religion: 89,8% Sunni Islamic; 8,2% Orthodox Christian; 1,4% Shia Islamic; 0,6% Others (2013)

    GDP: 243,000,000 US Dollars

    GDP per Capita: 18,409 US Dollars

    Independence: 7 December 1991

    Background History: The formation of the Islamic Republic of Northern Caucasus started with the missionary activity from the Tatar Khanates from the late 14th Century after the disaster Timur Lenk brought upon the region. The people who fled the armies of Timur ended up under the Tatar protection rather than being harassed by Timurs Forces, bringing contact with the Islamic religion once again. Although the missionary activity was not entirely successful due to the Golden Horde falling apart, it had some lasting effects on the Circassians. After the breaking up of the Golden Horde the newly converted Circassians sought new allies to subdue their common enemies in the anarchistic North Western Caucasus in which they found the Crimean Khanate and later the Ottoman Empire. As a result, subdued non-Islamic Circassians whom were defeated and captured were being sold as slaves to the Turkic Neighbours all over the region, decreasing the number of non Muslims in the region. At the same time the Eastern Caucasus became a base for Sufi Lodges who participated in the conversion of the non-Muslims. By the early 17th century Islam had reached the majority and by the end of the century it had found two third of the population. The biggest disaster was for the Pagan population who did not survive the 18th century due to the aggressive missionary activity by the Sufi Chechens and Eastern orthodox Georgians. From the late 18th century onwards the Northern Caucasus once again faced a new threat since the Golden Horde: the Russian Empire. The Russian had built several forts on the river Terek and were trying to penetrate in the region. By the time Russia gained control over the region the Islamic population had risen to 80% of the population. From the mid 19th century the Russians started to gain more power in the Northern Caucasus by taking the Land of the Ossetians, dividing the Circassians from the Chechens. When the Russians had beaten the Persians in the Russo-Iranian War of 1871-1873, the Persians had lost all of their Caucasian lands to the Russian Army, giving the death sentence to the North Caucasians. During World War I, the Russians Tsar abdicated and Civil War broke out between the Whites and the Reds. The Northern Caucasus was united under the Red Government as one region with a capital in Sochi. And thus ended the Northern Caucasus independence once again. During WWII the German Army started to advance towards Stalingrad while some German forces tried to take Soviet bases in Sochi and Maykop. Due to many soldiers from the Caucasus being stationed there the local populace started an Guerrilla campaign against the German Army trying to penetrate in the region thus protecting their kin. After WWII the Northern Caucasus experienced a large migration of Russians who had lost everything during the war and an attempt to control the region. The Russian population had reached the 20% in 1968 until going down again after the second half of the 70s when the next generation Russians started to migrate back to the cities. The emigration of Russians started the regaining strength of separatism. The origin of these separatist groups started among Conservative Sufi Lodges in Chechnya who wanted Islamic Rule over all of Northern Caucasus. When the Soviet Union lost authority in the 1990s the the heath of separatism started to rise. Already with the defeats of the Soviet Army in Afghanistan by 1986 started protests among the Chechnyan Sufi's. It did not get many supporters until the protest was put down with brute force. The result was more and more attraction to Militant Islamism among the Islamic Youth in the Caucasus. By 1989 the Russians who still formed 9,8% started to emigrate in bigger numbers fearing for a conflict in the region between the Soviet Armed Forces and the Islamic Front of the Caucasus, Originally a group of students studying Islam in Madrassas in Turkey, Egypt and Syria, turned into a Militant group by 1988. In 1990 the IFC had started an insurgency while Moscow was in crisis by seizing Grozny and Derbent. Slowly, entire Chechnya and Dagestan were taken. Although an opposition of the Soviets and the IFC did declare independence for the Northern Caucasus the IFC had moved in to the North Western Caucasus and took Maykop in 1992. In a secret deal between Gorbachev and later with Yeltsin, the IFC were not to be hindered by the new Russian government and in exchange, Russian businesses were to be respected and protected by the IFC led Northern Caucasus Republic. The IFC had forbidden migration from Sunni Muslims while protecting the Christian and Russian minorities in the country as a sign of good will with Russia. In 1994, the entire Northern Caucasus was taken by the IFC and in January 1995, peace was made. The capital was relocated to Grozny and the Armed Forces were reduced from 103,000 in 1991 to 48,000 in 1996. A standing Army was created and the state was ruled by Sharia Law for the Muslims. Christians could rely on Secular laws taken from Russia between each other. By 2017, the Islamic Republic of Northern Caucasus was the most Religious State of Europe, with 99,7% believing in a God and less than 0,1% being Atheistic. Between 0,1% and 0,2% the population was Agnostic. The strict rule of the state on the Islamic Population caused migration to neighboring countries and the West, with 2,1 million leaving of which 1/3 were Christians. Russia received the largest number, around 1,1 million, followed by Turkey with 800k. The remainder of the 200k left for Western Europe, mostly Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden and Austria. Although being an Islamic State and having strict rules, the state has a compulsory law on both men and women to follow (separated) education until they're 21.

    Armed Forces: 48,000 men active; 18,000 men reserve

  7. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

    Feb 23, 2018
    United Republic of South Africa

    Geographical Area: All British territories south of Nyasaland (Malawi) of OTL

    Capital: Johannesburg

    Government: Democratic Federal Republic

    Current Government: Democratic Alliance

    Official Language: English, Afrikaans, Zulu, Xosha, misc. other

    In 1906 the British Empire decided to begin merging its colonies in certain parts of the world into bigger “mega colonies.” The idea was that it’d be easier for the UK to oversee their economies due to a larger surveillance program resulting from this idea.

    The United Dominions of South Africa consisted of the Cape Colony, the Boer Republics, Benuchaland, the Rhodesias, Nyasaland, Basutoland, then later after WWI, SW Africa. The colonies were grouped together on the basis of their railroad track gauge of 4ft 8.5in gauge. (As opposed to our OTL's 3ft 6in gauge, otherwise, the development of Africa railroads was the same). The economy of the new Dominion soon boomed like never before.

    Meanwhile, the Afrikaners looked on in anger while the colony, and Britain, prospered. Losing independence was bad enough, but now they also had to face the growing integration of blacks into society by the UK. But on the bright side for the Afrikaners, they now could spread like melted butter across the country and breed like rabbits and therefore hope to overtake the black population, which they did. Soon, they were the largest group of whites in the country, and were gaining up on the black Africans in terms of population.

    Another factor in the growing white population was the arrival of immigrants. These were mainly from Italy, Eastern Europe and other underdeveloped countries. There were also more from the UK, Iberia, Belgium, France, Holland, SE Asia, and even Latin America. The black Africans were worried, and so appealed to the King of England for more rights. The King surprisingly agreed, citing what he considered their strong work effort. But it was too late depending on who you asked, by that point, only the Zulus of South Africa still outnumbered the Whites as a whole, even they were slowly being outnumbered.

    But by 1939, there was worse to come, Hitler invaded Poland and WW2 began. South Africa was obliged to help Britain fight Germany, Italy, Japan, and Spain. Therefore, South Africa immediately sent every fit male ranging in age from 18 to 60 up to the UK to help prepare for a battle against Germany.

    But then, the Afrikaners realized that with most of the British and a good deal of their own gone off to war, they had all but complete rule of the country. Several groups of Afrikaner rebels, back by Axis sympathizers in the Portuguese colonies of Angola and Mozambique, who were taken advantage of the fact that Portugal had recently been invaded and annexed by Spain, as well as pro- Axis Belgians in the Congo, soon began a rebellion in the former Boer Republics. Creating the short-lived nation of Transvalia out of the old republics and Southern Rhodesia. These efforts would soon fall due to the eventual defeat of Italy, then Spain and Germany, and Japan, the result of the defeats meaning that the UK could go and retake South Africa again.

    But they wouldn’t rule South Africa for much longer. By 1944, populism among both Afrikaners and the blacks was growing.

    The country was becoming harder to govern as a direct colony. Therefore, the UK gave South Africa semi independence as a Commonwealth like Canada and Australia. But then the National Party, a pro Afrikaner party founded in 1914, won barely due to the recent surge of white population in the form of refugees from the Second World War. The Republic of South Africa was born.

    Under this rule, Apartheid came into law, being mainly similar to what it was in OTL. But the USA reluctantly aided them due to the threat of communism, while the UK stayed with them out of concern for those of British ethnicity in South Africa. However, the UK, USA, and South Africa did join forces to fight Robert Mugabe in the Rhodesias. Mugabe’s communist forces were responsible for horrid crimes against not only white farmers, but also more moderate blacks in the region.

    Despite being communist himself, Stephen Biko, the leader of the African Consciousness movement in South Africa, was absolutely appalled by Mugabe’s atrocities. He had expressed a desire to help the US and UK find a more peaceful solution to the problems South Africa had. But he himself was often under severe government watch. The good news here is that unlike OTL, he not only survived his September 1977 arrest and detainment, but also became a more libertarian political believer.

    That said, South Africa, backed by the UK and US military, we able to defeat Mugabe. Who was eventually sentenced to the firing squad for his crimes in 1982. At that point, the black Africans began demanding more liberty, and requested that the rest of the British Commonwealth help them. Within the next few years, they managed to free many prominent anti Apartheid leaders such as Mandela. That said, it was not easy, mainly due to the aforementioned fact that Afrikaners, and whites in general, outnumbered most black African ethnicities.

    Eventually, however, in 1993, F. W. De Klerk, as moderate Afrikaner, announced the coming of free elections. In the end, Mandela’s party, the African National Congress (ANC) was elected.

    After Mandela stepped down. Biko decided to run for president himself, on the side of the Democratic Alliance, citing his disappointment in the socialist turn the ANC took on South Africa. Under the leadership of Biko, who is now in his early 70s, South Africa has developed into a true superpower, and is a major player in the British Commonwealth. With a wide variety of material being used with in and abroad. People of both white and black races enjoy one of the highest standards of living in Africa, and in the Southern Hemisphere.

    The transportation network in the country has what is also considered the best railroad system in the world. An interesting side note is that South Africa, due to the cheap labor resulting in its many ethnic groups, black and white alike, breeding like rabbits, had plenty of low cost labor to continue the use of steam locomotives in the 2010s.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  8. Hvalrossen Well-Known Member

    Feb 28, 2018