Alt 'day' fighters for Luftwaffe, 1937-45
- Thread starter tomo pauk
- Start date
Can they make an actually working engine of the 609 design, and what they don't do in exchange?
Well they were ordered to suspend work on the project in 1943, what would have to go for them to continue I don't know.
But here's an old pic of mine I reworked to take the 609.
I stretched the nose and tail of an Me-309 and gave it the tail of the Me-109TL. It's a bit sleeker looking now, looks fast IMO.
There's a comic book called "Luftwaffe 1946" in one of the issues there was an Me-263 with a jet engine, it inspired me to do an alternate Me-263 as well, I made it sleeker and gave it a swing wing which the Germans were working near the end of the war.
Here I've taken that old design and given it a jet engine, I wasn't sure where to stick the air intakes so I just stuck em in the wing, call me lazy.
I call it the Messerschmitt Me-363.
I am not sure if it would be that good of an idea, while it offered more power than the DB 603 it actually had less power per weight, making it less efficient together with the long, single crankshaft that suffered vibrations. It would make more sense for DB to produce the DB 604 engine than the 609 which had more developing time, more power and better efficiency (I think).
There's nothing except the He 177 or Ju 288 that can benefit from the DB 609 entering production in 1942, the DB 603, as you would need to have it for any DB 609 to exist would fulfill any needs for a high power engine (for the FW 190) or heavy fighters (Me 410)
You could fit it to a FW 190 eventually but trying to do so to the 1942/43 models would require quite the rework on counterbalance so you would end up with an even longer Ta 152.
I believe they made a few test engines and tested them in 42, though I think instead of switching production from one engine to another they would expand their 603 factory or factories to build the 609 also - requiring some of the 603 machinery.
Here's an idea I didn't take that seriously at first (just thought it would look cool) but I wonder now if it might have been doable?
I took a Dornier Do-335 and made a hybrid prop/jet design out of it, some friends then encouraged me to make just a jet version which in the end reminded me a little of a Mig-21.
So after several different variations I made the plane on the bottom and I wonder if the real Do-335 could've gone thru a similar evolution had time permitted.
I took a Dornier Do-335 and made a hybrid prop/jet design out of it, some friends then encouraged me to make just a jet version which in the end reminded me a little of a Mig-21.
So after several different variations I made the plane on the bottom and I wonder if the real Do-335 could've gone thru a similar evolution had time permitted.
marathag
Banned
Started at 2830 cu.in, then jumped on the higher RPM bandwagon, then more displacement, to 3044 cu.in with lower rpm, then more displacement and more rpm 3387 cu.in.
Then they went back 2830 cu. inches with 3200 rpm, and worked on supercharging in 1943-4
It was still sort of like three V-8s set in radial fashion, which had never worked well, as when both Wright and Curtiss tried that format in the early '30s.
The French may have had it worked out right, with the SNCM 130, another 24 cylinder effort of 2931 cubic inches for 1800hp@3200rpm, but 1940 ended that effort.
So just start the Jumos with 3387 cu.inch(55.5L) displacement and run them at 3000 rpm for 2600hp reliability, while working on the supercharging to keep performance up at higher altitudes
Looks a bit like a short Mig 21 to me (though I know it's a prop at the front). At least the pilot won't get minced in the rear prop blade if they eject.
Yeah it reminded me of a Mig-21 also which is why I kept playing with the design until I got WWII jet fighter with a Cold War era look.
Pangur
Donor
I like these, esp the last one. My eyes keep getting drawn what looks like a Welsh dragon
I forgot what squadron used that emblem but I believe it's an OTL Luftwaffe emblem.
I imagine it could, the plane would only have one jet engine, let's say the same Jumo 004 used in the Me-262 but here it's in a larger plane and less aerodynamic than the 262 so i don't think it would be a problem in fact I imagined the plane using both engines all the time.
There was an OTL design that used the same powerplant configuration but I don't think it ever got off the drawing board.
That was the impression I got, I just wish I could remember which squadron used it and if it is as I believe OTL.
Isnt the the DB 609 also extremly long? Combined with its lower power per weight that might make for a very awkward and inefficent aircraft design.
The overall profile reminds me a bit of the P-39, would a similiar engine instalation help with the overly long engine or would you just end up with an impractically long tail?
This is super cool and I really like the end-point of your evolution! If I think about it the Do-335 might indeed be quite well suited for a jet conversion, more so then some of the others that were done. The fuselage already is very large and with the weird arangement of the engines should have enough space for the jet installation. You will likely not get a super long lived jet out of it, but it might make for a very acceptable first to second generation fighter.
The 609 looks to be considerably longer than a 12 cylinder engine and the few pics I've done with it don't really do it justice, I've been stretching the engine a bit but they haven't really been to scale.
I might experiment with it more over on the "Alt Combat Aircraft" thread in the future.
The Germans did draw up a jet/prop hybrid version ( I have to admit I forgot all about that one) but it was never built but I think an all jet version could've worked pretty well, there was definitely plenty of room on Do-335.
Fw 190 project with the BMW P 8028 engine.
That engine never materialized to the best of my knowledge. It was probably designed around the BMW 801 core, with auxiliary S/C aft the engine, feeding the engine-stage S/C via intercooler in the 'beard' location. In early 1942, Fw calculated the max speed of about 650 km/h above 5.5 km, 680 km/h at 9 km, and 735 km/h at 11 km.
That engine never materialized to the best of my knowledge. It was probably designed around the BMW 801 core, with auxiliary S/C aft the engine, feeding the engine-stage S/C via intercooler in the 'beard' location. In early 1942, Fw calculated the max speed of about 650 km/h above 5.5 km, 680 km/h at 9 km, and 735 km/h at 11 km.