Al Gore becomes President in 2000

Unfortunately, I think we're actually reading Gore through modern paradigms. If you recall the election of 2000, Gore was accusing Bush of being too isolationist. Gore is going to be more, not less willing to intervene in other countries. Gore is, in my view, just as likely to go for Iraq as Bush. Remember the Iraqi Liberation Act was past under the Clinton admin. (1998), and Gore's foreign policy advisors during the campaign favored a strategy called "forward engagement" which included some thoughts not too dissimilar from the Bush doctrine (for all that they all criticize this now, but such is the way of politics). As was the case in Kosovo, he would have had support from most of the GOP and the Democrats. The interesting issue would be on the far left, where I submit there would still be an anti-war movement.

Think about it: there's no reason, apart from anti-Bush prejudice, to assume that Gore handles Iraq any differently (though he might, in fairness, limit his campaign to an air campaign as was the case in 96 and 98). But to claim that he'd be hands-off here is ridiculous.

I also don't think world opinion would be greatly changed, one way or the other. Chirac, the man partially responsible for Saddam's purchase of Osirak in the first place), was not going to back the US in any substantial Iraq play: not in the French national interest really, when one gets down to it. Schroeder...now that's an interesting question, but he and his foreign secretary seem on the pacifist end of things. The biggest difference in Europe is Britain. Without Bush the boogy-man, Blair's position vis-a-vis supporting Gore and the war in Iraq is much easier.

Now, I think a case could be made that Gore might have done better in Iraq, if nothing else because he'd have had the support of the Democrats, and most of the Republicans (the GOP is generally a "rally round the flag" party in war time: see Vietnam, WWII, Korea, Kosovo), though a bigger paleocon anti-war movement is a possibility also. In general though, I think Gore does better at maintaining public support for the war in Iraq (though, as a conservative it gauls me a bit to say it). His execution might not be considerably different though. It wasn't only Rumsfeld who was obsessed with the "do more with less" doctrine.

I do think Gore would have pushed independence from foreign oil as a national security issue. I also think immigration would have been an even bigger weakness for him than it was for Bush.

As for GOP candidates in 2004, here's my short list:
1. Tom Ridge. Considered as a VP even in 2000, he'd have 2 successful terms as governor of a large swing state, and some positive 9-11 aassociations, as well as the whole coal-mine thing (definitely big in PA).
2. McCain: for one more go-round.
3. Bill Owens: popular swing-state governor.
4. An obligatory southern senator with foreign policy cridentials (not sure just who).

Who wins? Depends on a lot of unguessable factors. When it comes to presidential elections I follow the "any given Sunday" rule: unless Gore either did something incredibly bad or incredibly good, both of which I doubt.

Gore didn't think the case for war was convincing.
PS: a better rule than the any given Sunday rule is the 6% rule. The President wins when the economy grows more than 6% from the third quarter of the year before the year before the election through the third quarter of the year of the election and loses when it grows less. And besides, no President of the United States has ever won or lost an election on a Sunday, since Presidential elections are held on Tuesday. :D
 
Last edited:
The President's control over the economy is extremely limited. In the first place, he can't really do anything about it on his own. Congress has to first pass a law that he can sign or veto. In the second place, laws Congress passes don't have a major impact in any case. In short, the American economy is an entity more or less independent of government.

Yet , a precedent might be set - a symbolic attempt .
 
I like what you've done, DbE. Please continue :) Seems pretty plausible as well. Good call for Holbrooke as SecState.
 
It's obvious to everyone but the most die-hard Bush supporters that the Iraq War was the brainchild of the current administration's neocon coterie. You actually contradict yourself: if gore "limits his campaign to an air campaign as was the case in 96 and 98", then by definition he handles Iraq differently from Bush, which went for all-out invasion and occupation.

In fact, with a war already going on in Afghanistan, it would have been strategically sensible to put the Iraq issue on the back burner. Gore would probably have taken up Saddam Hussein's offer of inspections and, once it did turn out that there no longer were WMDs around, left it at that to focus on the more pressing issue of Al-Qaeda.

You obviously get your knowledge of US politics from LaMond. The Iraqi Liberation act, which made regime change in Iraq a stated goal of US foreign policy, was signed into law by President Clinton as of 1998. Kennith Polick, one of the most prominent advocates of war with Iraq, was Clinton's top Iraq-Iran expert, and likely would have stayed around in the Gore admin. George Tenit, who told Bush that it was a "slam dunk" that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, would certainly have still been Gore's CIA director. Finally, did you actually read any of the material I posted in support of my point? Or would Fuerth's forward Engagement some how not have led to a confrontation between Iraq and the Gore administration?
My point was that, far from failing to take military action in Iraq, I suspect Gore would have engaged in some form of air campaign as was the case in Kosovo. This is different than a ground invasion only in scope. Once said air campaign failed to dislodge Saddam, a ground invasion would have resulted.
You forget that US foreign policy has shown remarkable consistency since 1980 in certain respects. And certainly there's a lot more consistency between that of Clinton and Bush 43 than either would like to admit. Clinton rarely if ever went to the UN to justify his military actions, and if Gore genuinely believed that Saddam had WMD and wasn't complying with inspectors, he wouldn't have either. The so-called "Bush doctrine" comes from a long line of similar statements in American history, going back to JQ Adams. Oh wait, he was probably one of those "neocons" you like talking about so much. I sometimes wonder if it's the only American political label with which you're actually familiar, though you completely misuse it (yet again) in this context. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush and Rice aren't "neocons" because they were never liberal or socialist. You can make a case that Wolfowitz, Pearl and maybe Doug Fief were neocons, but these were all second-tier people, and hardly a cabal capable of running the government. But then again, to a brainwashed anti-American Eurosocialist, what matters such distinctions! (See: you're not the only one capable of fabricating hate terms devoid of intellectual content).
 
Last edited:
Gore didn't think the case for war was convincing.
PS: a better rule than the any given Sunday rule is the 6% rule. The President wins when the economy grows more than 6% from the third quarter of the year before the year before the election through the third quarter of the year of the election and loses when it grows less. And besides, no President of the United States has ever won or lost an election on a Sunday, since Presidential elections are held on Tuesday. :D

Any given Sunday is an American football expression.
Yes, OTL Gore didn't think the case the Bush administration made was convincing. Different situation when you're on the outside looking in. I think you can make a strong case that a streak of anti-administration bitterness exists in Gore's politics OTL that won't be there afterwords. Besides, being president during 9-11 changes a person I think. Remember, pre-9-11 Bush wanted to get away from nation-building. I think a President Gore gets more aggressive as a result of 9-11, possibly turning forward engagement into something not too dissimilar from the Bush doctrine.

Mind you, I could go off on a "Gore would ruin the country" tyrade to appease my conservative politics, but I'm trying to extrapolate something plausible. And I don't plausibly see Gore not in conflict with Iraq. And unless Saddam acts drastically differently, I don't see it ending short of war.
 

Hendryk

Banned
But then again, to a brainwashed anti-American Eurosocialist, what matters such distinctions!
Ah, the good old name-calling. I was beginning to wonder where it had gone. Don't count on me to reciprocate, though--this thread has generated interesting debate and I want to see where it goes without having it devolve into a flamewar.
 
...
Oh wait, he was probably one of those "neocons" you like talking about so much. I sometimes wonder if it's the only American political label with which you're actually familiar, though you completely misuse it (yet again) in this context. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush and Rice aren't "neocons" because they were never liberal or socialist...

What? I- just- what?? That makes no sense to me whatsoever (although I'm another Brit outsider, so...)

As far as I'm aware, a neo-con is a neo-conservative. A new conservative. What does that have to do with being a former liberal, or former socialist? I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but I don't see where you're coming from at all.
 
Mind you, I could go off on a "Gore would ruin the country" tyrade to appease my conservative politics, but I'm trying to extrapolate something plausible. And I don't plausibly see Gore not in conflict with Iraq. And unless Saddam acts drastically differently, I don't see it ending short of war.
The problem seems to be that, as a conservative, you see plausible as "Gore is no better than Bush". Much in the same way that we leftists would see it as "Gore can only be better than Bush". Nothing wrong with that, but politics are involved in this discussion whether we want them to be or not.

And even if Gore does invade Iraq, I do think he'll be less hasty and unilateral about it (probably try harder to get UN support), if only because he'll have a bit less of a personal feud going with Saddam.
What? I- just- what?? That makes no sense to me whatsoever (although I'm another Brit outsider, so...)

As far as I'm aware, a neo-con is a neo-conservative. A new conservative. What does that have to do with being a former liberal, or former socialist? I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but I don't see where you're coming from at all.
A good deal of neocons were far-leftists back in the 60's and 70's- they then proceeded to go from one extreme to another and become far-rightists. That doesn't mean all neocons are that way though- the current administration is filled with them whether they're all former hippies or not, simply based on how they handle foreign policy.
 
Any given Sunday is an American football expression.
Yes, OTL Gore didn't think the case the Bush administration made was convincing. Different situation when you're on the outside looking in. I think you can make a strong case that a streak of anti-administration bitterness exists in Gore's politics OTL that won't be there afterwords. Besides, being president during 9-11 changes a person I think. Remember, pre-9-11 Bush wanted to get away from nation-building. I think a President Gore gets more aggressive as a result of 9-11, possibly turning forward engagement into something not too dissimilar from the Bush doctrine.

Mind you, I could go off on a "Gore would ruin the country" tyrade to appease my conservative politics, but I'm trying to extrapolate something plausible. And I don't plausibly see Gore not in conflict with Iraq. And unless Saddam acts drastically differently, I don't see it ending short of war.

I'm an American. I know the expression. It's true that Bush had no particular interest in going to war with Iraq before the terrorist attacks. But, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz did. And being that Bush has the intelligence of a tennis shoe, they were able to use the terrorist attacks to manipulate him into doing what they wanted. That's why we went to war. With Gore as President, it would've been a completely different situation.
 
Al Gore as President in 2000?

First of all, I must let everyone know that I am a registered democrat, who voted for George W Bush in 2000 & 2004, and I would vote for him again if he were able to run again. Al Gore, (remember, he stated in an interview that he invented the internet), changes his political stances more than his underwear. His first major test would have been the 9/11 attack, which he would have mishandled very badly. Also remember that he was in the White House for 8 years under Bill Clinton. A lot of words would have been thrown about, but nothing would have been done. Bill Clinton had 3 opportunities to have Osama Bin Laden handled over to the USA, and never took them. Under Al Gore, Saddam Hussein would still be alive, killing and torturing his own countryman. Gore would have allowed the oil/gas industry to continue to bleed the country dry, gas prices would be in the $5.00-$10.00 a gallon price range, and he would do nothing, because he would be telling America we need to tighten our belts, and struggle through the crisis...:eek::(:mad:
 
First of all, I must let everyone know that I am a registered democrat, who voted for George W Bush in 2000 & 2004, and I would vote for him again if he were able to run again. Al Gore, (remember, he stated in an interview that he invented the internet), changes his political stances more than his underwear. His first major test would have been the 9/11 attack, which he would have mishandled very badly. Also remember that he was in the White House for 8 years under Bill Clinton. A lot of words would have been thrown about, but nothing would have been done. Bill Clinton had 3 opportunities to have Osama Bin Laden handled over to the USA, and never took them. Under Al Gore, Saddam Hussein would still be alive, killing and torturing his own countryman. Gore would have allowed the oil/gas industry to continue to bleed the country dry, gas prices would be in the $5.00-$10.00 a gallon price range, and he would do nothing, because he would be telling America we need to tighten our belts, and struggle through the crisis...:eek::(:mad:

Riiiiight....:rolleyes:
 
First of all, I must let everyone know that I am a registered democrat, who voted for George W Bush in 2000 & 2004, and I would vote for him again if he were able to run again.
So you're a democrat, yet you've voted twice for Bush? And you evidently seem to think he's doing a good job? Not saying its impossible, but that kind of personal contradiction does seem rather odd.
Al Gore, (remember, he stated in an interview that he invented the internet), changes his political stances more than his underwear.
Seems to be a definition of all polticians and not just Gore, who at least isn't as big a flip-flopper as others on both sides.
His first major test would have been the 9/11 attack, which he would have mishandled very badly.
I really doubt he would've done worse than Bush (if he could've done better is extremely debatable) since I don't see how he could. What, surrender to Bin Laden and co. on live TV the next day, or go the other route and start nuking Middle Eastern cities at random?
Also remember that he was in the White House for 8 years under Bill Clinton. A lot of words would have been thrown about, but nothing would have been done. Bill Clinton had 3 opportunities to have Osama Bin Laden handled over to the USA, and never took them.
Well, Bin Laden didn't seem like a huge threat at the time, just a minor terrorist leader thought to be involved with some attacks on our assets overseas. And I'll be the first to admit that Clinton only seemed to be really interested in bombing & killing terrorist leaders when his scandals were being leaked out and he needed a distraction. But that doesn't mean that his VP would've taken a blind eye to Bin Laden after 9/11.
Under Al Gore, Saddam Hussein would still be alive, killing and torturing his own countryman.
Debatable. A bunch of people on this thread (myself included) seem to think that Saddam was going to be a major issue of Gore's administration, whether his country is invaded or not.
Gore would have allowed the oil/gas industry to continue to bleed the country dry, gas prices would be in the $5.00-$10.00 a gallon price range, and he would do nothing, because he would be telling America we need to tighten our belts, and struggle through the crisis...:eek::(:mad:
And this makes no sense at all, seeing as they've never even gotten close to that even with the stuff going on in the ME these past few years under Bush's watch. Gore is much less likely than Dubya to allow big oil to "bleed the country dry", based on his enviromental policies. In fact it almost seems delusional to suggest so... the economy might be hurting in such a TL, but it won't be because of $10/gallon gas, but instead Gore's moves to get us off foreign oil and other fossil fuels.
 
...
A good deal of neocons were far-leftists back in the 60's and 70's- they then proceeded to go from one extreme to another and become far-rightists. That doesn't mean all neocons are that way though- the current administration is filled with them whether they're all former hippies or not, simply based on how they handle foreign policy.

I think hippies is not the right word - we're talking about former Trotzkists here. Can't tell any names, though.

Oh. That'd explain Blair and co. having been pretty far left in the past (e.g. Jack Straw used to be a Trotskyist), but having now switched to the whole 'New Labour' thing. Or rather, becoming a bunch of Thatcherite sellouts. But then, that's my view.
 
well, there would be no war and i think our country wouldn't have been as torn apart. there would also be more people alive.
 
Top