Assuming somehow that a surviving Al-Andalus manges to cross the Atlantic and take Spain's historical niche, ow would it differ? would a Muslim power behave differently towards the natives?
Al-Andalus colonises the New world?
- Thread starter VictorVanBakker
- Start date
We're making a lot of big assumptions here, but I like the idea so...
I see them as being better and the same, to many degrees. On the one hand, Islamic realms made use of slave labour as did certain Christian lands, so they'd probably enslave Native tribes who didn't play ball - and I can see them declaring jihad on civilisations who practiced human sacrifice.
That being said... OK, I'm generalising a lot here. But generally speaking, converting to Christianity didn't help the native tribes much if at all. The same would not be true for Islam - generally speaking, once someone converted to Islam, they were equal before the law with their new co-religionists. And given the mixed heritage of the peoples of al-Andalus, plus the fact that Islam at this point in time was relatively colour-blind (again, generalising
), I can see natives who converted integrating into the new colony, just as Spanish converts would have gradually slotted in. And, over time, rising to become ruling figures. Converts wouldn't be second-class citizens, not in my opinion.Of course, disease would be an issue...
Benevolent
Banned
A significant portion of Spanish colonists were Jewish and Islamic forced converts, idk if it'd be all that different tbh.
Cueg
Banned
Honestly, you'd probably have a much less monolithic Catholic behemoth that currently exists in South and Central America. Personally, I think Muslims of Al-Andalus would do virtually the same thing. The slaving, killing, pillaging, rapping, ect. Of course, there's an exception in that they probably wouldn't be that big on forced conversion.
Dragos Cel Mare
Banned
Unless they're Almoravids or Almohads?
On the other hand, Muslim Medicine used to be superior to Christian Medicine, and a surviving Al-Andalus would keep that trend going. That means that when disease does strike the Americas, they would at least implement quarantine and sanitation.
Which Al-Andalus are you talking about? It's a pretty tenuous term. The Umayyds survived? The disintegration in Taifas didn't happen? It's the Almoravids? It's Granada? How is the Reconquista going?
Depending the initial PoD even if they reach the Americas (or whatever name it receives) they can still be doomed.
Depending the initial PoD even if they reach the Americas (or whatever name it receives) they can still be doomed.
Let's make it a surviving caliphate of Cordoba with a small break-away state analogous to Portugal.
Converts to Islam were second-class citizens in Al-Andalus.
Anyone who'a interested in a new world colonized by Morocco should look up the TL minarets of Atlantis... I don't think it's updated much lately, but it was interesting while it lasted.
yourworstnightmare
Banned
Well a Muslim power just like the Christian ones would be in many ways in the same position: We found new land!! Yay! Now how do we profit from it?
Would Al-Andalus care at all about finding the New World? AFAIK, the Silk Route trade across the Middle East at the time was mostly, if not entirely dominated by Muslims. The jacking of poll taxes by the Ottomans were the last straw that compelled the Iberians to look for alternate trade routes to bypass the Muslim middlemen, which also led to the discovery of the New World. Not that a surviving Al-Andalus would get any more favourable treatment, but they can at least gain a better share of the markets there, barring a nosedive in their relations with the Ottomans and other Arabs.
A very interesting point, and one I agree with. Ferdinand and Isabella did not sponsor Columbus's expedition as an exercise in exploration for its own sake...but to bypass hostile powers more efficiently trade with China and India. If there was no economic reason for the voyages of discovery, how long would it be before the New World would inevitably be discovered?
And given the mixed heritage of the peoples of al-Andalus, plus the fact that Islam at this point in time was relatively colour-blind (again, generalising
This is complete opposite of the actual Andalusi history that had ethnic based civil wars among the ruling factions every generation. This is also at odds with the history of Arab nobility taking power in Saheli states.
At best it will be marginally better than Spain and perhaps a tad worse than Portugal.
And what does that have to do with the New World?
I mean, besides fantasies about Columbus's three ships running into The Treasure Fleet and Columbus being reduced to girl-like screams of terror?
That's true, although there was a level of religious harmony (until the Berber dynasties and the "crusade" mentality developed), within the Muslim community of Al-Andalus, especially within the ruling class, there was very visible ethnic tensions. (Between Arabs, Berbers, Muladi (both convert and mixed), and the seqalaba)
I think a surviving Ummayad dynasty would be more interested in just general trade, and colonising would probably be similar to how Islam spread in South East Asia.
However, an Almoravid or Almohad colonisation would be very similar to both Spain and Portugal, with as much desire for conquest and religious ferver.