Going further back, how and when did, say France come to be seen as one political context and not separately Paris, Burgundy, Gascony, Brittany, Normandy, etc?
AHQ - when did personal unions between large kingdoms become unlikely?
- Thread starter stevej713
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From Philip II Augustus the Kingdom of France starts to become a proper kingdom and not just a HRE type of association.
The Commonwealth as a whole isn't.
But the Commonwealth Realms are in a personal union.
The nobles still had various degrees of autonomy in their fiefdoms, but they saw the state centralizing, and wanted to stop that process. Their defeat in the Fronde opened the door for absolutism.
Yes, that is what I was referring to - two different countries entering into a personal union, not the mere existence of personal unions. I wouldn't count Congress Poland or Napoleon's various personal unions since they were not inherited but rather imposed. It definitely seems like there reached a point where the possibility of a foreign monarch inheriting another kingdom became very slim indeed.
Even today, it's not impossible for at least the prospect of a personal union - a member of the British royal family could theoretically marry a member of the Spanish royal family and produce a child that could simultaneously be the heir of the British and Spanish thrones. Of course people don't really marry for familial inheritances anymore and the heir apparent would likely have to renounce one of the thrones, but it would be an interesting turn of events. It seems that there was a point where monarchs began to discourage high-profile marriages. I simply wonder if there are any historical quotes or records that say anything to that effect.
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I think that the issue was not the “nobles” but rather top aristocracy (“the princes”) and that they were considering situation mostly not from the position of the medieval semi-independent feudals but rather in the terms of their power at court (and as a result, in the state affairs). They considered themselves entitled to the high positions by the right of a birth but, starting from the time of Richelieu they had been slowly but systematically pushed to the side. Having a young king and a weak regency looked as a great opportunity to reassert themselves. De Beaufort, de Marcillac, Conde and even Gaston of Orleans were not (AFAIK) planning to turn themselves into the semi-independent rulers of the feudal domains. It was different with the Duke of Bouillon because he was an independent ruler and his principalities of Sedan and Raucourt had been confiscated after Cinq-Mars conspiracy but he was a marginal figure in the Fronde and made peace with Mazarin after getting a land compensation within France. His brother, who also joined the Fronde, was seemingly mostly motivated by this family issue and as soon as it was settled and he was offered an army command, he became quite loyal to the government and remained so until his death.
The important part was that the Fronde broke the backbone of the top aristocracy. Time when they could raise their own armies was gone. The top places at court now had been subject to the loyalty to the King and they turned from the almost equal partners into the “loyal subjects”. Look at the most energetic (and probably the stupidest one) of the figures of the Fronde of the Princes, the Grand Mademoiselle. During the Fronde she “took” Orleans and ordered garrison of the Bastille to fire at the royal troops during the battle of the Faubourg St Antoine. And how did she end? In the letters to the ...er... the great love of her life (the choice was the most idiotic but what do you expect?) she kept assuring him that most and firemost she loves the King and de Lauzun was answering in the kind. The greatest honor for the top aristocrat was to have a right to be present at King’s waking and the following procedures (including sitting on a certain ‘chair’). Those less privileged had to wait outside in a hope to be permitted to enter the royal bedchamber on a special permission.
formion
Banned
Its as @alexmilman described.
The first thing Louis did when he actually came to power after Mazarin's death was to ensure that the top aristocracy would be excluded from his councils. Even when he had all his ministers together, he would cause a competition between them, so that no powerblock would emerge. Even the great Turenne was excluded if there was no war to be fought. The king made a habit of not even matters of state in his private conversations with aristocrats.
In contrast he sought to advance the lower nobility and bourgeois in the most important positions of power. We should have in mind though that the nobility of the time wasn't the pure landed lords of the past. Most of the noble families had married at some point to tax-farmers for their money.
The first thing Louis did when he actually came to power after Mazarin's death was to ensure that the top aristocracy would be excluded from his councils. Even when he had all his ministers together, he would cause a competition between them, so that no powerblock would emerge. Even the great Turenne was excluded if there was no war to be fought. The king made a habit of not even matters of state in his private conversations with aristocrats.
In contrast he sought to advance the lower nobility and bourgeois in the most important positions of power. We should have in mind though that the nobility of the time wasn't the pure landed lords of the past. Most of the noble families had married at some point to tax-farmers for their money.
Wasn't that kind of the case with Napolean? Didn't he simultaneously officially rule a couple different countries besides France at the same time?
I guess though it was by conquest and more of a fait accompli than considering someone inheriting the crown of multiple countries. For instance, the French were perhaps rightly paranoid at the prospect of the Holy Roman and Empire uniting with Castile and Aragon. Thus, King Louis XII likely threw his young niece at King Ferdinand II of Aragon after the death of Isabella of Castile, in the hopes that at least Aragon would remain out of Habsburg rule.
Yes, the aristocracy was completely re-oriented in their ambitions and this proved to be surprisingly easy. Now the purpose was to get favors from the King even if some of these favors look rather weird. For example, Duke de Saint Simon in 1702 resigned his commission (being unhappy with not getting promotion to which he felt being entitled) thus causing Louis's displeasure. Louis allowed him to hold a candle when he was going to sleep once (a high honor) and after that never shown any sign of his favor. And the pompous windbag obsessed with his precedence among French peers (Saint Simon) considered this important enough to be described in his memoirs.
Aristocracy did depend upon the royal favors and while the top level was pretty much closed (except for the diplomacy), the military career was open and Louis' personal attitude was a decisive factor in getting the promotions and even commissions. Eugene did not get even a low level commission and his elder brother never got a regiment and later was dismissed without a pension. OTOH, somebody whom Louis liked, like Duke de Villeroi, would get elevated to a marshal and army commander, with the disastrous results, and nonetheless retain his high position at court.