AHQ: Industrial Revolution in Ancient Greece

Bos taurus

Banned
This Youtuber says it's possible

What do you guys think of it? He says over reliance on slave labor was what prevented Greece from industrializing.
 
Whatifalthist says a lot of things. Very few of them are worth paying attention too.

As for the question, industrialization happened because of a very specific set of circumstances that took place in Western Europe, and in particular the United Kingdom that had been building up for well over a century. Very few of them could be recreated in Ancient Greece. So, no. Ancient Greece cannot industrialize.
 
It is not true that the ancient Romans ignored Heron's Aeolipila, but they studied it thoroughly, as Pliny the Elder testifies in his Natural History. And just downstream of these studies, they realized how the invention of this ancient steam engine had two major limitations: poor efficiency, current reconstructions, with the advantages of current metallurgy, reach a maximum of 1500 revolutions per minute and a disproportionate consumption of firewood. Therefore, this invention was not set aside in favor of servile work, but of a competing and more effective technology, the water mill, which had greater performance, cost less and met the needs of Roman entrepreneurs ... the Romans, who needed an economy of scale compared to classical Athens, for the Greeks the difficulty of adopting this technology would have been greater. If ITL had been adopted, it would certainly not have led to mass industrialization, but its impact would have been limited to specific production niches.
 
Remember, the industrial revolution started with weaving, powered by watermills.

Most of Greece is sorely lacking in abundant, free flowing water.

Epirus (see the currently active Hoplon of Magna Graecia in the ASB forum) is a possibility.

Rome actually made some hesitant steps in that direction - industrial scale watermills, mass produced clay lamps (not only stamped out in a machine, but stackable for efficient shipping,iirc).
However, the system didn't support bootstrapping off those individuals advances.
 
I think his criticism of Socrates/Plato because of his metaphysics focusing on abstract entities while emphasing the importance of math(yet another metaphysical system used to understand the world) and stuff like atom theory(you want anything more abstract to ancient people than invisible particles? Also our concept of atom is not the greek "the indivisible" atom) is utterly hilarious
Plus the idea that the sophists were lovely empirists that would totally have led to a scientific revolution and not a bunch of coachers who put a heavy emphasis on the use of rhetorics rather than a higher truth is also pretty funny
Aside from that, he's right that the use of slavery made ancient industrialization very unlikely due to efficience issues
But I dont think removing it alone would have led to a industrial Greece
Rome? Maybe, but Greece simply didnt have the insane amount of resources to pull from that the romans had to invest on something like a industry, and thats very important when you consider it took the british holding the whole planet by the balls to achieve their industrialization IOTL
 
What does AHQ mean?.

And I like WhatIfAltHist but he's no specialist in any of these and also trying to make plausible build ups for his senerios so, SHOULDN'T BE TAKEN AS A SPECIAL AUTHORITY.
 
The OP should just browse the forum a bit. I can recall at least two similar threads in pre-1900, and at least two ASB scenarios where it's a full-blown industrial revolution, not just Greeks coming up with some innovations earlier (e.g. primitive steam engines)
 

Bos taurus

Banned
The OP should just browse the forum a bit. I can recall at least two similar threads in pre-1900, and at least two ASB scenarios where it's a full-blown industrial revolution, not just Greeks coming up with some innovations earlier (e.g. primitive steam engines)
It doesn't hurt if the same topic is brought up again though.
 
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