Depends the butterflies, we could see it under a local or Arab Dynasty or someone else, or Still Ummayds if an Abbasadid equivalent happens
AHC/WI: Muslims win 717 siege of Constantinopole
- Thread starter Otto Kretschmer
- Start date
Dont think so the troop who will conquer and hold on Anatolia won’t be the one that help defend Al Andalus against the Frank
Depending the butterflies we could see a Banu Qasi wank if they play their cards right. There the Native Banu Angelino https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muwallad
Yes if the Banu Qasi take power in Al-Andalus, it might end up being a western counterpart to Persia. Speaking an Arabized Latinate language.
So Mozarabic? a Arab-castillian-Ladino(Latino?) Inspired/Based language? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aljamiado ? Yeah the Muwallad might get more power if the Ummayds got the big win over the ERE, and Galllia is still wide open too.
Osman Aga
Banned
Not necessarily. The conquest by the Franks is not implausible (not sure about entire Iberia). But the invasion of Iberia was by local forces from North Africa. Smaller than usual. So saying that the Arabs would be overextended is not right in this context. As long as there is a source of Berbers nearby there is a manpower source for the Muslims of Iberia.
I don’t think that Muslim states on the European mainland will be able to survive in the long term, simply because they will lack the hinterland, which will continue to attempt to push them out. The border between Christiandom and Dar al-Islam have been relative stable. The regions with steppe and desert hinterland have been able to push Christians out, while the regions with agricultural hinterland have been able to push Muslim out.
Of course that doesn’t mean that Muslim conquest won’t radical change Europe, the regions of Europe which fell to Islam was forever changed even after they were regained. Aa example if the Bulgar Empire is destroyed, it would leave the Romanians to consolidate and push south, or fleing Slavs overwhelm the Vlachs and Romania becomes Slavic. Arabs could be settled on the Danube frontier and later they’re reconquered and force converted leaving a people of Arabic speaking Christians running OTL Bulgaria.
But the biggest effect I think is that the fall of Constantinople only leave one Patriarchy in Christian territory; Rome. Which mean pretty much all conversion in Europe will be toward Catholicism.
Ottomans ruled by 400 years, here i can see Ummayds and Sucessor rulling even easier than OTL.
Don’t agree a successful siege of Constantinople in 717 is probably one of the best PoD for a partially Muslim Europe say Iberia , southern Italy and the Balkan could very well remain Muslim in a long lasting way . In 717 Europe wasn’t as universally Christian as in 1300 and would lack the Christian hinterland to « push them out » the Mediterranean will become a Muslim lake with Sicily and co co being taken and islamized century earlier such open the possibility of a Muslim southern Italy , a delayed or not happening Berber revolt with a longer living Umar II could very well screw the reconquista and the possibility of the Bulgarian remaining pagan longer with Easter Europe in general give a Muslim hellenized stade centered on Constantinople in a alternate Umayyad collapse which could lead to Muslim Ukraine in the Middle Age , Caucasus and i could easily a long term Muslim region in Europe
I disagree that could have worked a millennium earlier, but at this point the center of European population had moved and was still moving north and Northern Europe was transforming itself social and economical. The Muslim conquest of Constantinople will handicap Europe, but it Frankish Empire and its successor states which was the center of what we saw develop into early modern Europe.
What is most interesting from a European perspective is what power vacuums the lack of the Byzantines will create.
So possibly Islamic Balkans, Islamic Volga ? Bulgars, Rus, Slavs convert to Islam ?
Balkans are a side effect and could happen, the Volga and other slavic tribes could choose island because trade reasons too, would be very intersting those butterflies
yeah it could be a possibility the caliphate needs to weaken or change the view that converting to islam means submission and the others might convert and possibly the bulgars as well , the volga might convert this is before the khazar conversion so they might convert to islam instead later down the line since the early years were conflict between them
To add to my initial thoughts on the Banu Qasi, it has come to my attention that the Caliphate contemplated withdrawing from Al-Andalus during the Berber revolts due to the severe loss of manpower. If the Caliphate recognized the authority of the Banu Qasi to rule in Damascus' stead, the Caliphate could withdraw their garrisons from Al-Andalus, crush the rebellious Berbers much earlier and then transfer said junds to reinforce their conquests in Anatolia and the Balkans.
Again means more focus on the balkan, and a native vassal rulling on andalus, massive butterflies itself
And the sooner the Balkans are secure, the Caliphate can draw up plans to capture Italy.
i think with the time they would take to secure the balkans the frankish can at least take the north .