Yeah but I think they would goes for sicily first .
Frank have themselves, saxons,lombard and ERE remant to face off too
AHC/WI: Muslims win 717 siege of Constantinopole
- Thread starter Otto Kretschmer
- Start date
You're not wrong. The Franks would see the political vacuum in Italy as an opportunity to establish themselves as the hegemonic power in Christian Europe. Sort of pulling a Charlemagne 130+ years prior to IOTL.
the ere remnant in italy would probably collapse to the lombards the saxons where a charlemagne project he could if he wanted to ignore them , the frankish kings could change views seeing italy as much more important than saxony
if some one as genius as Charlemagne then they can pull both like the otl Charlemagne while the muslims are most likely getting killed in a mountain pass in bulgaria like the byzantines
Miguel Lanius
Banned
Aren't muslim northerners, as in slavics and germans, very improbable, because those people are heavily dependant on pig meat and have strong drinking habits?
This, outside steppe pork is the most available meat in Northern/Eastern Europe.
Without Byzantines Rus' is more likely to convert to Western Christianity than to Islam.
Otto Kretschmer
Banned
IIRC Sharia law does allow its own rules to be broken if circumstances require it.
Slavs could convert to Islam and keep eating port at least for some time until replacement is found... Is there a viable replacement to pork?
Slavs could convert to Islam and keep eating port at least for some time until replacement is found... Is there a viable replacement to pork?
There a lot of sheep and goats can live up north is just not give much meat , again pig meat could be considered emergency winter meat if need, not halal, but Malik(allowed but not encouraged) like smoking
Speaking on the Franks, they have a major problem that the kingdom as a rule needs to be divided between each son. So even if the Muslims get pushed back by the Franks, their kingdom by design is prone to division and infighting.
That is why i say they would be too busy figthing themselves, not even that, the POD could butterfly away the Carolineagns and save the merovigeans
lets look at the internal politics of ummayyad empire if all eastern roman empire fall
1-arab elite become a even smaller minority
2-persians will continue to have the same greviences as in OTL [ abbassid revolution may still happen]
3-Greeks/roman influence on ummayyads and later dynasties may be so considerable that turks do not get much traction as in OTL
4-Islam in its most formative phase would be influenced more by Greek/eastern orthodox Christianity
5-There is a very good chance of islamic caliphate dividing into a eastern and western wing , western mostly ummayyad based on previous byzantine empire and "eastern" wing based on previous sassanian empire dominated by abbassids and they start feuding just in the previous centuries
6- ummayyad conquest of spain may or may not happen
1-arab elite become a even smaller minority
2-persians will continue to have the same greviences as in OTL [ abbassid revolution may still happen]
3-Greeks/roman influence on ummayyads and later dynasties may be so considerable that turks do not get much traction as in OTL
4-Islam in its most formative phase would be influenced more by Greek/eastern orthodox Christianity
5-There is a very good chance of islamic caliphate dividing into a eastern and western wing , western mostly ummayyad based on previous byzantine empire and "eastern" wing based on previous sassanian empire dominated by abbassids and they start feuding just in the previous centuries
6- ummayyad conquest of spain may or may not happen
Last edited:
Dude, at that time they already started the conquest of Al-Andalus, if Anything that happened secondary to the wars vs ERE, here might come faster even
No problem if anything 678 open even faster andalus and even italy as the romans are done
Manpower will be an issue though for arabs at the time , and the internal strife + civil wars
Butterflies if anything they ummayds winning big so early give them more power, discredited rivals and give money to share
Also intraummayyad rivalries too
esp if Marwanids are contested by son of Uthman and perhaps descendents of Moawia
The win would cold down rivalries and moved to see who keep damascus as the other move to constantinople