The prospects of legal prostitution can guarantee the right to protection of sex workers, decrease abuse and rape, reduce the need for pimps for protection, allow the increase use of safe sex, allow an actually labour union for sex workers to form, allow a tax base for the government to allocate, and other benefits not mentioned in my head. When is the earliest date the United States can legalise prostitution universally with protections and policies similar to that of Germany ? It seems it is only legalised in individual states such as Nevada and I presume, Rhode Island.
AHC : Universally Legalise Prostitution in the United States as early as plausible
- Thread starter Divergent54
- Start date
Impossible. Two forces would have never let that happen: American churches and American organized crime.
Stop Josephus Daniels from closing Storyville (New Orleans) in 1917 because it was within 5 miles of a Naval Station....
GeographyDude
Gone Fishin'
First off, I compliment you on introducing a topic which spans both pre- and post-1900. I like these topics.
And then, honest to gosh, maybe if a less convoluted, fanciful theory was introduced slightly before Freud? And maybe enough people might take the view that we're against various kinds of abusive sexual behavior, not just the useless, guilt-ridden view that all sex is bad.
And maybe if a progressive movement in one particular state in the early 1900s took the view, sure, we can talk about reform of prostitution, as long as we include it in an overall package of jobs and social welfare.
And then, honest to gosh, maybe if a less convoluted, fanciful theory was introduced slightly before Freud? And maybe enough people might take the view that we're against various kinds of abusive sexual behavior, not just the useless, guilt-ridden view that all sex is bad.
And maybe if a progressive movement in one particular state in the early 1900s took the view, sure, we can talk about reform of prostitution, as long as we include it in an overall package of jobs and social welfare.
GeographyDude
Gone Fishin'
Looking back on it, why didn't people in the 1800s have a better handle on sexual abuse? For example, often it's someone known to the family, who uses various tricks and bullying to get the victim to think that it's their fault.
One reason might be the near monopoly of one of the first major news syndicate by either AP or UPI.* I've read that they got much cheaper telegraph rates along rail lines, so they certainly didn't include too many stories critical of railroads. I've read that they didn't do anything approaching a fair job of covering issues affecting Mexican-Americans, and probably a number of other issues as well. So, if we had had just better journalism in general, situations where young women are promised jobs in hotels, and then they're often sexually assaulted the first time and then bullied into prostitution, that could he covered and we might have a more effective Mann Act. And we can envision a situation where prostitution is legal, but various fraud is not and is able to be matter-of-factly prosecuted by the legal systems of most states. And if you can't, you're considered way behind the times.
Maybe less censorship, so instead of ministers and furtive conversations being the only discussion of sex, you actually have something responsible and realistic in the middle.
As an example of something not discussed, I saw on C-SPAN the author of Fire Shut Up in My Bones. He was sexually abused all through childhood by a cousin. He thought about murdering the cousin, instead decided to forgive him. He said that sexual abuse is a violation of trust and a violation of boundaries, which is difficult enough to deal with, but to add to this often because of homophobia or misogyny, the idea that the victim is damaged goods, just makes a bad situation all the more difficult, and often by the very parents and family members who should be supporting and taking care of the child.
Well, we're a long way from where we should be, even today. The author also said that more than 50% of the perpetrators of abuse are themselves under age 18, and until we're honest and realistic about the situation we're not going to be too good at dealing with it.
I want positions that are both pro-sex and pro-respect.
Maybe into the 1800s, although it might be a bit of a stretch, more people could take the view, abstinence is great if you're a spiritual person and you get spiritual benefits, but for the rest of us, it's not all that realistic. Maybe views that masturbation is a great release of tension, a great way to stay out of trouble, and all around not that big a deal, so that teenagers would not feel tremendously guilty about it. Maybe. Why not.
* I apologize for the previous typo, which the so-called spellchecker made worse. And, I think AP was the near monopoly, and UPI the outfit which belatedly challenged it.
One reason might be the near monopoly of one of the first major news syndicate by either AP or UPI.* I've read that they got much cheaper telegraph rates along rail lines, so they certainly didn't include too many stories critical of railroads. I've read that they didn't do anything approaching a fair job of covering issues affecting Mexican-Americans, and probably a number of other issues as well. So, if we had had just better journalism in general, situations where young women are promised jobs in hotels, and then they're often sexually assaulted the first time and then bullied into prostitution, that could he covered and we might have a more effective Mann Act. And we can envision a situation where prostitution is legal, but various fraud is not and is able to be matter-of-factly prosecuted by the legal systems of most states. And if you can't, you're considered way behind the times.
Maybe less censorship, so instead of ministers and furtive conversations being the only discussion of sex, you actually have something responsible and realistic in the middle.
As an example of something not discussed, I saw on C-SPAN the author of Fire Shut Up in My Bones. He was sexually abused all through childhood by a cousin. He thought about murdering the cousin, instead decided to forgive him. He said that sexual abuse is a violation of trust and a violation of boundaries, which is difficult enough to deal with, but to add to this often because of homophobia or misogyny, the idea that the victim is damaged goods, just makes a bad situation all the more difficult, and often by the very parents and family members who should be supporting and taking care of the child.
Well, we're a long way from where we should be, even today. The author also said that more than 50% of the perpetrators of abuse are themselves under age 18, and until we're honest and realistic about the situation we're not going to be too good at dealing with it.
I want positions that are both pro-sex and pro-respect.
Maybe into the 1800s, although it might be a bit of a stretch, more people could take the view, abstinence is great if you're a spiritual person and you get spiritual benefits, but for the rest of us, it's not all that realistic. Maybe views that masturbation is a great release of tension, a great way to stay out of trouble, and all around not that big a deal, so that teenagers would not feel tremendously guilty about it. Maybe. Why not.
* I apologize for the previous typo, which the so-called spellchecker made worse. And, I think AP was the near monopoly, and UPI the outfit which belatedly challenged it.
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GeographyDude
Gone Fishin'
Back in the 1980s, a Navy man told me that a ship had an officer who was given additional duties and I think titled protocol officer(?). Who would tell the men, this place is okay, but no, don't go to this other place, practical advice much like an older brother might give. In addition, I think a military base commander has the formal power to declare a place off limits, which would really have the effect of shutting down a business.
So, what if a base commander is somewhat of a political progressive, or just takes the view that he doesn't want his men getting sick from preventable venereal diseases, and he certainly doesn't want the women held against their will. And he's savvy enough to realize that the moral argument, for whatever reason, often doesn't really carry weight, but the argument that 'this can come back and bite us' stated matter-of-factly, this often does carry weight with institutions, and it's rather ironic and surprising the times it doesn't.
And he gets the head of nursing on board, or alternatively, she takes this on with the commander's full blessing. So, she and her staff conduct health inspections at local brothels and actually treat the women as human beings.
There's the Showtime series Masters of Sex with Michael Sheen and Lizzy Caplan, where the women working in the brothel are actually shown as full human beings each with her own personality. In one case, a woman has headaches and is worried is she has brain cancer like her mother, and the doctor examines her and prescribes a new pair of eyeglasses, to her enormous relief.
And, maybe the nursing staff could matter-of-factly offer to use the base mail for letters home (or simply a 'safe,' nondescript address to write back), could arrange rail transport home.
Maybe the nurses could invite the women to assist with a scrap metal or a bond drive and given a male escort so they won't be harassed. And yes, at a certain point, this might become too idealistic. But with progressive leadership, and starting down the path of treating the women as human beings, you might be able to go pretty far.
And for a novel or movie, there could be a pretty interesting backstory of why the base commander and/or head of nursing are progressive, some of which you anticipate but in a different way than you anticipated. And the writer skillfully gives only a couple of glimpses of this and you put the rest together, or maybe just a single glimpse.
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One thing I find interesting is when several medium PODs lead to a big change, with an end result that I might not have fully anticipated.
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And I very much like the idea of a union among sex workers, as perhaps the best way for them to take care of themselves. There was a prostitute rights organization which I think started in California in the 1970s and which had the great name COYOTE for "Call Off Your Old Tired Ethics."
So, what if a base commander is somewhat of a political progressive, or just takes the view that he doesn't want his men getting sick from preventable venereal diseases, and he certainly doesn't want the women held against their will. And he's savvy enough to realize that the moral argument, for whatever reason, often doesn't really carry weight, but the argument that 'this can come back and bite us' stated matter-of-factly, this often does carry weight with institutions, and it's rather ironic and surprising the times it doesn't.
And he gets the head of nursing on board, or alternatively, she takes this on with the commander's full blessing. So, she and her staff conduct health inspections at local brothels and actually treat the women as human beings.
There's the Showtime series Masters of Sex with Michael Sheen and Lizzy Caplan, where the women working in the brothel are actually shown as full human beings each with her own personality. In one case, a woman has headaches and is worried is she has brain cancer like her mother, and the doctor examines her and prescribes a new pair of eyeglasses, to her enormous relief.
And, maybe the nursing staff could matter-of-factly offer to use the base mail for letters home (or simply a 'safe,' nondescript address to write back), could arrange rail transport home.
Maybe the nurses could invite the women to assist with a scrap metal or a bond drive and given a male escort so they won't be harassed. And yes, at a certain point, this might become too idealistic. But with progressive leadership, and starting down the path of treating the women as human beings, you might be able to go pretty far.
And for a novel or movie, there could be a pretty interesting backstory of why the base commander and/or head of nursing are progressive, some of which you anticipate but in a different way than you anticipated. And the writer skillfully gives only a couple of glimpses of this and you put the rest together, or maybe just a single glimpse.
========
One thing I find interesting is when several medium PODs lead to a big change, with an end result that I might not have fully anticipated.
========
And I very much like the idea of a union among sex workers, as perhaps the best way for them to take care of themselves. There was a prostitute rights organization which I think started in California in the 1970s and which had the great name COYOTE for "Call Off Your Old Tired Ethics."
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That's the logical way to do it. Have a state legalise it, someone challenge that in court and have the SCOTUS decide that banning it is unconstitutional (for reasons of freedom of speech, presumably). The problem is finding a court that would actually rule that way.