The challenge is to have the United Kingdom, Germany, and the United States on the same side in WW1, staying on the side side throughout the whole war, with a POD of 1850. Bonus points if they are in the same alliance before WW1. Extra bonus points if they lose WW1 catastrophically.
AHC: United Kingdom, Germany, and United States on same side in WW1.
- Thread starter BunnyBlitzer
- Start date
Cryostorm
Monthly Donor
Have Germany decide to focus on Europe and not want to colonize, maybe Germany wanting to unite all Germans, particularly the ones in Austria-Hungary and maybe Netherlands/Belgium, which mean they don't really focus on a navy outside of coastal craft. This means Britain will be more focused on France and Russia in the great game.
Somehow Germany stays out of the Scramble and does not pursue an aggressive Naval Plan but remains focused on the East. At the same time African and Central Asian rivalries strain relations between GB and France/Russia. Perhaps the butterfly is Wilhelm I dying before the Scramble and Freddy dumping the Pilot and living another 20-30 years. A united Germany that is not a rival naval power and is hands off the Low Countries is an economic rival to GB but not a geopolitical threat to GB but French and Russian colonial ambitions are. A successfully Boulanger coup and a more nationalist French regime would also help. If an Anglo/German alliance faces off against France/Russia then the US would either join or favor the Anglo-Germans. Not only is the Northeastern establishment Anglophilic but the German diaspora in America is large and powerful in the Midwest. It requires some pretty large butterflies in the 1880's but it is not ASB. By the 1890's its a dead horse.
Germany and Russia are more involved in the Balkans Wars, and it goes badly for Russia. Germany & Austria-Hungry allow Russia to save face to improve relations with Russia. They hope that this would split France and Russia leading to another league of three emperors. Russia has a revolution which overthrows the Tsar and create a republic. France supports this revolt, along with other republican revolutions in Spain, Portugal, China, and Serbia. The UK begins to question France's action. Germany makes diplomatic overtures to the UK.
After Franz Ferdinand is assassinated like on OTL, Austria-Hungry declared war on Serbia. Russia declares war on Austria-Hungry. Germany declares war on Russia. The change in that France declares war on Germany and invades through Belgium. The UK then declares war on France.
The US is neutral and trades with both sides. During the war, French submarines sink American supply ships heading to the UK and Germany. The US also learns that France plans to take the Panama Canal after the win the Great war. The US enters the war.
After Franz Ferdinand is assassinated like on OTL, Austria-Hungry declared war on Serbia. Russia declares war on Austria-Hungry. Germany declares war on Russia. The change in that France declares war on Germany and invades through Belgium. The UK then declares war on France.
The US is neutral and trades with both sides. During the war, French submarines sink American supply ships heading to the UK and Germany. The US also learns that France plans to take the Panama Canal after the win the Great war. The US enters the war.
I think this would be the main one. Colonial rivalry was the main cause of relations souring between Britain and Germany; without it, France remains the big competitor, and an alliance between Britain and Germany (both long-term rivals of France) makes sense.
Let me see...
- POD 1: The American Civil War is even more bloody and protracted. A huge number of slaves flee north, dramatically reducing the black population in the Southern states. After the war, Reconstruction is a failure, and the South is populated by bitter independentists who blame the Yankees for stealing their slaves and are itching for a second pop at nationhood.
- POD 2: As above, the Germans don't seek (as big) a colonial empire. Consequently Anglo-German relations remain cordial, and the two countries form an alliance against France.
- POD 3: Russia industrialises and reforms its army better than IOTL, meaning that it's in a much better state to fight a modern war.
- WW1 breaks out over some cause, with France/Russia (the Peripheral Powers?) fighting the UK/Germany. The French, knowing they can't beat the British in a conventional naval war, try using submarine warfare to starve the island, inadvertently bringing the US into the conflict on Britain's side.
- Fighting in Europe is extremely bloody, but with a more efficient Russian army, the Anglo-German-American forces on the Continent are ground down. Germany is forced to surrender and occupied by the victorious Peripheral Powers.
- The war reaches a stalemate, with Britain and America blockading France and Russia, but unable to land a decisive blow. Unlike IOTL, the blockade isn't enough to defeat France and Russia, which have far more food and industrial resources than Germany did historically.
- The inability to gain a victory, plus the economic hardship caused by the war, causes the US government to lose prestige. The South rebels again. Its black citizens are almost all staunchly pro-Union, but because there are much fewer of them than IOTL, they don't have much effect on the war. The US hurriedly makes a separate peace to focus its resources on dealing with the crisis. Nevertheless they fail to prevent the South seceding. Consequently their strategic position is much less strong than IOTL, leaving them less able to exert power and influence in the rest of the world.
- With the US out of the picture, Britain stands alone. France and Russia are able together to put together a fleet capable of challenging the British for naval domination. The British fleet is defeated. In a panic, Britain sues for peace, paying heavy reparations. The country avoids occupation, although the blow to its prestige is severe. Rebellions and independence movements break out across the Empire, and Britain is unable to control them all. Soon it loses the majority of its overseas territory and becomes a second-rate power. The end.
Emperor-of-New-Zealand
Kicked
I wonder if you could use the myth of the "protestant work ethic" in here somewhere.
It would be great to see a timeline where Rhodes does actually succeed in setting up his pro-British secret society. Kind of like the Illuminati or Freemasons, but with more warm beer and cricket.
Holy Smokes, assuming that GB, Germany & the United States of America are roughly equivalent to their selves in OUR history this isn't a war, this is a police action; I'm not sure even Austria-Hungary, France, Russia & Japan all together would stand a reasonable chance against the other three (Assuming they remain roughly equivalent to their condition in history as we know it).
The point is to make them weaker and make them be in an alliance but lose WW1. I think a U.S defeat in the Civil war is a start
PoD: After unification, Germany focuses on becoming a cultural power and starts to neglect the military.
PoD 2: Russia suffers a revolution but remains a constitutional monarchy. The new government continues the Great Game and starts reforming the army and railways.
Something in the Balkans sets off the Great War. Maybe Austria-Hungary and Russia settle their differences in the Balkans and decide to expel the Ottomans from Europe once and for all, maybe taking advantage of some sort of Ottoman succession crisis. Germany, not wanting Russian power to grow and being friendly to the Ottomans, and also believing that France will not join the war, declares for the Ottomans. Russia and A-H manage to get France to join with promises of a sphere of influence in Syria. Italy takes look at this alliance and decides that its better to take up the Austro-French offer of a sphere of influence in southern Anatolia in exchange for neutrality. The UK joins Germany to help contain Russia. Japan, who had previously patched up relations with Russia would like to grab the German colonies but don't wish to fight the RN, so stays neutral. The US joins the Germany because the French accidentally sunk American ships in the Atlantic and to grab the French Caribbean.
Germany, having neglected its armed forced ITTL and being surprised by France, and the Ottomans, in the middle of a succession crisis, are quickly defeated and occupied by the Franco-Austro-Russian Alliance (the new Holy League). France had previously built up troops in its colonies due to tensions with the UK and US, so they are unable to be taken. With the war at a stalemate and a revolution breaking out in Mexico, the US gets a status quo peace in order to deal with Mexico. The UK now alone, and its push into the colonies going poorly also gets a status quo peace.
The Holy League dictates terms to Germany and the Ottomans. Ottoman Europe is split between Greece and Bulgaria except the Straits which are taken by Russia. Russia annexes Armenian majority areas in eastern Anatolia. Iran, who joined at the last minute gets some border concessions. Italy gets their sphere in southern Anatolia, France in Syria, and Greece in western coastal Anatolia. The German Pacific colonies are gifted to Japan as thanks for neutrality. Austria annexes Bosnia. Germany loses Posen and Klaipeda to Russia and Upper Silesia to Austria. Prussia is forced to restore the Kingdom of Hannover as well as other territories it annexed in 1867 as subnational monarchies of the German Empire, and Prussia's remaining Rhenish territory becomes independent provinces of the Empire.
No WWII or equivalent.
PoD 2: Russia suffers a revolution but remains a constitutional monarchy. The new government continues the Great Game and starts reforming the army and railways.
Something in the Balkans sets off the Great War. Maybe Austria-Hungary and Russia settle their differences in the Balkans and decide to expel the Ottomans from Europe once and for all, maybe taking advantage of some sort of Ottoman succession crisis. Germany, not wanting Russian power to grow and being friendly to the Ottomans, and also believing that France will not join the war, declares for the Ottomans. Russia and A-H manage to get France to join with promises of a sphere of influence in Syria. Italy takes look at this alliance and decides that its better to take up the Austro-French offer of a sphere of influence in southern Anatolia in exchange for neutrality. The UK joins Germany to help contain Russia. Japan, who had previously patched up relations with Russia would like to grab the German colonies but don't wish to fight the RN, so stays neutral. The US joins the Germany because the French accidentally sunk American ships in the Atlantic and to grab the French Caribbean.
Germany, having neglected its armed forced ITTL and being surprised by France, and the Ottomans, in the middle of a succession crisis, are quickly defeated and occupied by the Franco-Austro-Russian Alliance (the new Holy League). France had previously built up troops in its colonies due to tensions with the UK and US, so they are unable to be taken. With the war at a stalemate and a revolution breaking out in Mexico, the US gets a status quo peace in order to deal with Mexico. The UK now alone, and its push into the colonies going poorly also gets a status quo peace.
The Holy League dictates terms to Germany and the Ottomans. Ottoman Europe is split between Greece and Bulgaria except the Straits which are taken by Russia. Russia annexes Armenian majority areas in eastern Anatolia. Iran, who joined at the last minute gets some border concessions. Italy gets their sphere in southern Anatolia, France in Syria, and Greece in western coastal Anatolia. The German Pacific colonies are gifted to Japan as thanks for neutrality. Austria annexes Bosnia. Germany loses Posen and Klaipeda to Russia and Upper Silesia to Austria. Prussia is forced to restore the Kingdom of Hannover as well as other territories it annexed in 1867 as subnational monarchies of the German Empire, and Prussia's remaining Rhenish territory becomes independent provinces of the Empire.
No WWII or equivalent.
One idea is that the Prussia loses, or at least do poorly vs the Austrians in 1866- perhaps the war drags on or something. This has a few effects- longstanding enmity between Prussia and Austria, but also the French succeed in Mexico. Eventually Prussia unites the German Empire (somehow...). Austria is not in the position to expand into the Balkans- Prussia is considered the main future enemy, and is able to heal it's relationship with Russia. France has created considerable hostility to the US, but also faces a newly united Germany- so aligns with Austria. The UK tries to maintain the balance of power.
France Russia and Austria could maybe overpower Germany on land before Britain and USA could intervene. Britain and USA would need to invest in their army more than otl prewar to intervene.